Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by Tamandco, Oct 2, 2005.
How many of you have your property set up into zones?
My zones seem to be blending!
:lol: Have started with zones as per my permaculture design but can see where they will eventually blend together. Is that a problem?? in the future.
All the activity at my place happens around the sheds so things seem to be happening there, whether they're mean to or not. :?
I don't really seem to have zones Tam. But then I guess the smaller area you have to work with, the less zones, or the more merged zones will be.. You just stick things wherever you have the slightest bit of space left.... :?
Tis a good subject though because permaculture is meant to be all about the zones, and positioning of things..... I can't wait till I get enough space to have something along the lines of zones to think about...
I'd love to hear about other peoples places though.
I think I might try and draw a plan of my place on paintbrush (cos I love using paintbrush :lol: ) to post here.
Oooh please..... I'd love to see how you have things set out....
Tell me Tam, in your second last photo of your photo gallery, is that are your veggie garden with roo protection, or is it a chook forage area, or combination of both? (sorry if you've already said and I missed it)
Though I guess I might find out anyway when you post your paintshop Picasso....
Isn't the concept of zones to assist with using less energy? eg: having an orchard further out because you wouldn't visit it as often as say...the chooks (minus maggots).
But then if your chooks were in the establish orchard then that would be a 'blend' of zones and, you would think, be closer to the house??
Are zones that important if you're prepared to walk a little further to certain aspects?
A plan of your place is a good idea Tam. I intend on drawing a scaled map of my property on clear plastic...having a few sheets....the first sheet will have the property boundries and any fixed (house, shed etc) features.
The next sheet will then have a plan of what I want to do....fruit trees, trees, plants, vege's...pig pen....so that overlaid I can see the end result of what I want.
Then it's just a matter of working back from there so everything is done in steps.......chook fodder plants planted prior to getting chooks.....just working on a timeline backwards.
Zones are good I guess...but I'm quite happy to walk a 100m or so to visit something that most books might say should be in a closer zone. Hmmm doesn't really sound like I'd use zones....though the pigs will be as far from the house as I can get them!
Have started working on my paintbrush drawing but your idea Corny about the transparancies are a good idea.
My friend has an extensive rose garden and has all of his roses mapped out so he knows exactly what is where. Very well organised.
I must start keeping a more detailed diary.
Joel, its um, ah, sort of like a fixed chook tractor thingy. The 6' chicken wire fences in the vegie garden, (sorry guys, it's all in straight rows now, just couldn't help anal self :lol: ) which is adjacent to the 6' cyclone fenced chook run. There's a little trap door between which can be fastened open in between vegie plantings. Only trouble is, it's a fairly large area 5m x 12m so doesn't really fit in with a Linda Woodrow type cycle of a rotation every x weeks.
What we're doing is, where the compost hay bins are, is going to become the second vegie area. All that compost, hay, etc, will just be spread and planted directly into. That will also be fenced. I've got all the materials and hubby's nearly finished digging the post holes, just a bit busy with other things at present. That will also be somehow attached via the chute and a little tunnel made out of chicken wire, to the chook run.
We're also planning on 2 more either side, so there'll be 4 in total, but it takes a lot of time to gather, build and process that much compost. In the meantime, I'm going to plant all of my run away things there like curcubits, beans and peas, which tend to take up quite a bit of room.
Each of the areas will be attached to the chook run via the chute. This way, the chooks are safely housed in their cosy little house of the night, and their run is almost fox proof. (am going to close in the top soon) I'll eventually always have at least one vegie area out of action which the haybales/compost bins going. That way, I can really build up on the organic matter, in situ, where the planting's going to happen.
We're currently extending the chook area to include 2 breeding pens. I'm currently using little 1.5mcubed crates as brooding cages, and these are a bit all over the place, wherever there's a sheltered spot. Once we get the breeding pens finished, we'll have everything chooky in one spot, which will make feeding up much easier.
BTW, the top photo on the Produce page is of the same area taken up hill.
My dad took his camera back :roll: so I just have to improvise with paintbrush. :lol:
Will get back to my picasso now. 8)
Will we be able to see it before the paint dries?
Depends how patient you are!
Am working on it as we speak (write)
Will look tomorrow
Time to hit the sack...must work tomorrow
pssst...do you always paint with your tongue hanging out?
This was not as easy as I imagined.
Your reference to 'scaled maps' Corny made me get the copy of my title out. It's not that easy to position everything acurately. That might become my next project. :lol:
I like your chookery. It sounds functional. We have a similar set up.
We started out with an old cattle and citrus farm, which dictated what we could do and where we could do it. When we tried to put a zone plan ontop of the farm, we found several Zone 1 places that were far from the house, and now we have a forest garden of trees that come right up to parts of the house.
I think the Zones concept is a very good way to look at land, and a good concept to work from, but I find that our zones are all over the place. All of our major vegetable production, s'posed to be Zone 1, is actually a two and five minue walk (seasonal) from our house because right at our house is ridge top and the soil is not great for veggies (and it is mostly trees which can do well on these soils, so no sun).
I laughed when I read about your rooster Basil, what an ingrate! He had a good gig, and blew it! Ypu have such pretty birds, too. And your shetland pony looks strong... and your house looks like it has a wonderful veranda for tea.
Your web site is so full of inspirational stuff. Dawn gushed over the silkies.
Returning to the question at hand, before I delve off into the realms of CDD, I think the Zones thing is more like a guideline, and, as in many things in life, interpreting them can be flexible to accomodate real situations on your land. Our transition between zone is not well defined and gets blurred as plant guilds and communities grow.... Blending is, in my opinion, a good thing!
I can remember doing suburban permaculture and I always seem to end up making mental maps of where fruit trees with fair game on them are located, where mulch sources are etc, and trying to design my movements between such places so as to make the most of my energy. The bamboo grove growing wild along the creek 2 miles from house was obviously zzone 5, whereas the orchard in the community garden down the road was zone 3, I suppose.
Imagine suburban neighbourhoods designed with zones in mind!
I think you did a very good job Tam.
Thanks Corny for your encouragement, thanks Christopher for your and Dawn's feedback, and thanks Richard for your info about your suburban zones, which I'm really interested to hear more about.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like a neighborhood with the different zones set up where the most suitable area is. So some zones would be closer to some houses than others.
Now I'm off on a bit of a tangent, but this was what I expected to see when I visited Moora Moora. I thought each cluster would be set up with their own infrastructure, ie, vegies, orchard, dam, (can't think what else) but on the larger scale, the agricultural side of things would be set up in an area common to all clusters. I was disappointed to see that none of this was in place. Each house within a cluster had their own vegie garden and it was very much, mine and his insofar as boundaries.
Furthermore, they have a vast area of grazing land which currently has cattle agisted on it. I think for a coop, this is a wasted opportunity, even as a coop money spinner selling organic beef. Many people would endeavour to restore the grazing land to it's former indigenous bush but the area already nurtures so much that a small amount for grazing doesn't appear to be that detrimental to the scheme of things. It's the old concept of degrees of and things in moderation - a balance.
Getting back to your 'suburban' permaculture model, appart from the organic and environmental side of things, would you liken it to the old crown land 'commons' of England?
Yeah Tam, that's exactly what I am on about. I don't know if anyone has done properly before. But instead of duplicating everything for each nuclear unit you could share a whole lot and have somewhat specialised foci (is that the fancy way to pluralise focus?) in each cluster.
I suppose as the motto goes, "the field lies open to the intellect"...
I guess the idea of the commons would work for a lot of things wouldn't it? gardens, woodlots, orchards, fields... heck, how many people need their own tractor? or car? make it all commons I say! but then I'm a dirty communist who gets up most noses... :roll:
we were talking about transparencis a little bit ago. a friend of mine is being very patient with me as he tries to teach me how to work in Adobe Illustrator. We have been setting up a map of property I am working on. So far, we have, or actually Geoff has, traced the property boundaries onto one "layer", contours onto one "layer", structures onto another "layer". Eventually it will be a really useful tool for recording all sorts of stuff, and a neat tool for visualising zone and sector analysis. Kind of like transparencies, but with a computer!
It's only communism cos people want to label and categorise others, it doesn't necessarily mean the goverment taking over what you can and can't have/do/say. When you think about it, it's just logic and good planning. When people say to me I'm a greenie/permie/whatever, I just say, I'm just me with interests in these areas. I don't embrace absolutely everything within a concept because that's the way it's done, but I'll certainly listen, research, then decide what I'd like to adapt from it.
I'm not into communal living for 2 reasons, I'm a bit antisocial, and I'm selfish. BUT that's not to say that I can't see great advantages in concepts such as the one you've described. I'd really love to see one in action, here in this country and on the broader scale, such as around an entire town. My particular style of living (and we haven't achieved it yet) was chosen for financial, health, and lastly, environmental reasons (don't anyone get mad at me - please) but when looked at in the big picture, you can't have one without the other, and the financial gain (or less of a strain) is the icing on the cake.
Hey, and when I've saved all this money from growing my own, reducing my energy expenditure, and improving our health (therefore, less medical costs) I'm going to spend up big and buy myself my dream horse, and spend the rest of my years out there beating the pants off all those capitalistic @#$%^&* with their brand new 4x4s, flashy floats and million dollar investment properties, doing what I love!!!! :twisted: (that's the selfish side of me)
personally i put my chickens in zone 12 coz i am scared of them!! they are cannibles so i visit them every fortnight in hope that a few of them have died befor i get there, they have lots of babies so it usually evens out if u have any suggestions on how i can kill them faster they are entering my dreams!! they chase me with marshmellows on pitch forks!! :shock: please help me i think they are watching me now with there beedy eyes!! :twisted:
"When people say to me I'm a greenie/permie/whatever, I just say, I'm just me with interests in these areas. I don't embrace absolutely everything within a concept because that's the way it's done, but I'll certainly listen, research, then decide what I'd like to adapt from it".
This is great Tam and makes you a Tam-ist. Uniquely your own.
Chickie wow. I'm not sure what to say about your post. My zone 12 is reserved for toxic waste, young liberals and air quotes.[/quote]
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