Woodchips, compost, turf, for 1 metre raised beds?

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by Joanna, Jan 3, 2010.

  1. Joanna

    Joanna Junior Member

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    Dear Permies,

    I’ve got some raised vegie beds which have 1.0 metre high frames (for ergonomics, and general preference), and the following possible ingredients for filling them:

    - More wood chips than I can use anywhere else. They’re dry, poplar wood chips - from a tree loppers - so they're fairly coarse.

    - No shortage of organic compost to fill the beds (the NASAA certified one; not enough from home).

    - Top soil which is currently filling about 20 cm of the inside of the beds.

    - The dried out contents of wheatgrass trays (i.e. slabs of turf). Enough for a 10cm layer.

    - Cut Grass – enough for a 4 cm layer.

    - 12 kg of chicken manure.


    I’m aware that the compost will settle, lowering the height of the filling in the bed.

    I am thinking of adding some of the wood chips to the beds. Maybe filling the bottom with about 30cm of the wood chips, in order to raise the bed internally with this economical ingredient of which I have an oversupply. This wouldn’t get compressed at the rate of the compost, although it is gappy.


    What mixing/laying would you recommend?


    Should I create a bottom layer of wood chips and compost, for a more solid mix which will settle less? Of about 40cm?

    Should I create a top layer of compost and soil for a mix that is a bit more solid than straight compost? Of about 60cm?

    Where should I put the wheatgrass and grass clippings from the garden?

    I'm a guessing newbie (in Melbourne, Australia.)

    Thanks for your expert advice!!


    Joanna
     
  2. Joanna

    Joanna Junior Member

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    P.S. re NASAA certified organic compost

    A side issue: I just had another look at the NASAA "certified organic" compost I bought and it contains little pieces of rubbish. I rang the (certified) garden centre and spoke with them about the compost, and was reassured again that the compost was NASAA certified organic - but also informed that it was produced from green waste that has been collected from green waste bins, and then allowed to heat up for 3 months.

    That doesn't fit with my understanding of "certified organic". I have always assumed that for any product to be certified organic, the ingredients must be certified organic - which is not the case with this compost. It would contain any poisons that people have sprayed on the green waste, or other rubbish that has ended up in green waste bins.

    I just read on the NASAA website that they also certify mushroom compost. Yet there's very little certified organic mushroom growing in Australia.

    Does anyone know more about this? Some more knowledge on this would influence where I put this compost (though it probably doesn't contain quantities/qualities of toxins for me to be concerned about).

    (However, I'm most interested to get any advice on mixing/layering of ingredients for my vegie bed!)

    Thanks!

    :)

    Joanna
     
  3. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    Hi Joanna - I had a similar experience when purchasing some bulk potting mix recently from a landscape supply place. Although not meant to be certified organis, I was concerned to find some traces of things in the mix that should not have been there. A couple of samll pieces of plastic, but mainly what appeared to be traces of hessian or horsehair carpet underlay. I recognised this quite readilly as it was soon after the publicity a few months back about possibility fo asbestos being in old carpet underlay due to recylcing of hessian bags that had been used to carry the material. I had used quite a bit of that type of carpet underlay around my place to suppres weeds and prevent errosion and was so concerned I had paid several hundred dollars to have a whole heap of bits of the remaining underlay tested for asbestos traces (thankfully nothing found in the stuff I'd used). You can imagine though how pissed I was at the prospect of this being in the bought potting mix. I rang the landscape place and got the usual bullshit reassurances.

    I suspect that the huge quantities of dump mulch are used by all sorts of people to form part of products which are subsequently sold as a premium. This is disgraceful because as you say that stuff could and does contain anything. I was stupid enough to take up the offer of my local council once of collecting several trailer loads of the stuff for free. Of course it was absolutely chocka block with all sorts of plastics (maintly garbage bags) as well as god knows what else (some mulched up asbestos sheeting included no doubt). This stuff would probably be quite a useful resource and an example of great recycling if only people taking their green waste to the dump would be responsible. A bloke at the dump went of his head with a massive tirade of swearing at me when once I had the cheek to advise him quite civilly that he should be taking his lawn clippings out of the garbage bags before dumping in the green waste pile.

    I now shred/chip all my prunings etc from my own place and make good use of the product in my raised garden beds. More carbon thatn nitrogen in this normally so need to layer up with chicken manure or other nitrogen rich stuff. Over Xmas I did a fair bit of cleaning up of excess growth of various shrubs and things around my place. Never ceases to amaze me how little is produced by a whole heap of prunings, but all the same I reckon I got a good 30 wheelbarrow loads of mulch from the cleanup adn because there is a lot of succulent wood and leaf matter included, it makes a real hot pile within 24 or 48 hours and composts fairly well on its own, making it supperb for the no dig gardens. I try and at least partialy compost it before putting into gardens though, not only to stop the heat killing plants but also because once you spread it more thinly it is likely to take a long time to break down. For the application you are using you chip for though - provided it is at the bottom I don't see it being a big issue. It will provide for good drainage and as long as you keep up the nitrogen to the beds it should nto cause a nitrogen deficiency when breaking down.
     
  4. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day joanna,

    you can't expect too much else out of certification once regulation is in the hands of gov' and companies with profits added corruption follows. and the scientific description is "so long as it contains carbon" that leaves the field wide open hey? you can't get the honesty people are looking for through regulation, that simple. then have a look at how many certifiers there are and all the confusion that could cause, why so many? again money. and that recycled greenish waste from teh tips gets up to medium grade liquid industry waste added into it as well as that humusy stuff from the sewerage farm. think about it they call choock pellets from chemcally raised chooks organic??? because they can, and the public are easy duped.

    now for how to use what you have i would lay the stuff that breaks down slower in the bottom ending with the lamost usable composted type material on top or add some mushroom compost from teh farm on top as well so you can plant the gardens right away.

    see our straw bale presentation on our site might give you an idea or 2?

    len
     
  5. SueUSA

    SueUSA Junior Member

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    I agree with Len that you should put the most coarse stuff in the bottom, and top that with the higher nitrogen materials, and finish off with a mix of the most immediately useful materials:

    Bottom to top:

    Wood chips (moistened, if possible)
    Cut grass and wheatgrass tray contents (moistened if possible)
    About two-thirds of the chicken manure (moistened)
    The grass and manure (high nitrogen) will contribute to the breakdown of the woodchips.
    Then top with a mix of the top soil, the rest of the chicken manure and some organic compost.

    This should make the top section usable in two weeks or so, and while you are growing in the top half, the bottom half will be breaking down. Many people assume that the top 15 cm (6") is where all the root growth is, but roots of even common vegetables will extend far into the soil if they are able. Deep beds like that are great for drought-proofing if kept reasonably moist and mulched.

    Sue
     
  6. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    Joanna - what are your frames made out of. Not CCA treated timber I trust.
     
  7. Joanna

    Joanna Junior Member

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    Thank you everyone for your detailed posts!!!

    I'm using your advice!!

    After several calls to the retailer, the processor (manufacturer) and NASAA, I got the mulch picked for a refund. I've learnt that:

    NASAA is now a private company.

    If you make a complaint/enquiry to NASAA, they contact the processor/grower immediately. They have absolutely no interest in what is sold as "NASAA certified organic", anywhere, unless they have certified that seller. They only look after their clients (who they certify), not the consumer. So if you want to investigate, don't give NASAA too many details to start with, just ask them questions.

    Products sold in bulk cannot carry NASAA certification. Only products that are packaged.

    "NASAA certified for organic input" is entirely different to "NASAA certified organic". The former can contain... asbestos... DDT, lead, anything from a home, commercial site, former dump, etc, that ends up in a council green waste bin and hasn't been spotted and fished out by a worker at the processing plant. I'm looking at labels more closely now.

    Biodynamic is a closed system of agriculture, where any input must come from the BD farm, or from another BD farm, in order to get and keep certification; at least in Australia, but I presume this applies in any country. Way to go.

    Joanna
     
  8. Joanna

    Joanna Junior Member

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    My frames are old sleepers

    Veggie Boy,

    They're old railway sleepers. They're heavy in 2.4 m lengths.

    Next time I might be using stainless steel, unlined, raised veggie patch frames from Designer Tanks. Though I"m not sure if they're continuing to make them for much longer.

    Or something else that's lighter than sleepers.

    Internet fora, this this wonderful permaculture forum, are the way to go for research.

    Joanna
     

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