Wood stove - heating, electricity and water

Discussion in 'Designing, building, making and powering your life' started by fiona, Nov 7, 2006.

  1. fiona

    fiona Junior Member

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    Hi all

    Anyone know much about wood stoves? Next winter we'll have to do something about heating this house, and as well as insulation as priority one (which the house is sadly lacking) I'm wondering about a wood stove. Hoping we'll change over to solar hot water at about the same time, so are wood stoves available here that can also heat water for household use as backup to solar when the weather isn't as sunny? And of course, it would be great to also be able to cook in it - no point turning on the oven if there is already lots of heat available.

    So anyone have one? Recommendations? Cautions?

    Fiona
     
  2. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    Can't help on recommendations Fiona, but I do recall reading that you can work a solar hot water system in with a slow combustion water heating system.
     
  3. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    we have an old Everhot wood stove connected to a solar HWS and it heats ALL our water so well we dont have an electric booster

    almost any wood stove can have a hot water coil installed but usually that means you must change to gravity hot water and have a "shepherd's crook" on your roof

    we just had our Everhot done up ...... we had thought of buying a new Thermalux stove but in the in decided they just werent as good as the Everhot and the price is frightening https://www.metaldynamics.com.au

    the only downside is stoves are insulated and arent really that good at heating your house ........ we have a wood heater as well

    depite all the adverse propaganda ( govts want to sell gas and electricity) wood is the only cooking or heationg method that is carbon neutral see https://www.woodstoves.com.au

    frosty
     
  4. Arby

    Arby Junior Member

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    I know a little about wood stoves. Cooked/heated w/ them on the range for 18 years and have used one as my primary heat source in my home for 15 years.

    They can either be an environmental enemy or a wonderful implement. Minor details in burning practice make the difference. Some tips:

    -Use new technology. New stoves burn cleaner than old.
    -burn only seasoned (dry) wood
    -resist dampening down. That starves the fire of oxygen & makes smoke. Smoke = pollution. Dampening down is akin to a cars choke on the carb malfunctioning. You get incomplete combustion which = bad emissions.
    -never burn treated or painted lumber, pressed or laminated woods, magazines, trash or driftwood. This creates dioxins that fall out of the air and settle every where. High concentrations are also found in the ashes.
    -burning several smaller pieces of wood makes for a hotter (less moke = cleaner, healthier) fire than one or two larger pieces. Think 6" dia max for a large stove. 3-4" diameter wood is better.

    When following these basic rules, there'll be little detectable smoke exiting your chimney. And the less smoke you're making the healthier your burn.

    A wealth of wood heat information can be found at these sites:
    https://burnitsmart.org/english/index.html
    https://www.canren.gc.ca/prod_serv/index ... 3&PgId=584

    Additional information can be found here:
    https://www.epa.gov/msw/backyard/

    For a more detailed look at dioxins, visit the following:
    https://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs225/en/
    https://www.ejnet.org/dioxin/

    To see how far dioxins can travel & move up the food chain:
    https://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF15/1515.html

    Oh, and I recommend a stove with a glass door. Besides the obvious soothing visuals, seeing the fire enables you to better/more easily monitor the fire and keep it burning hot.

    Burning clean takes some commitment but is satisfying.

    Good luck, have fun.

    Arby
     
  5. fiona

    fiona Junior Member

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    Thanks for those replies. Good to know there are things to do to make it a bit more enviromentally ok. I was figuring that even if it put out similar amounts of pollution for the amount of "power" produced, because of the enormous loss of power in it travelling from plant to houses it would still have to be better. And if combined with nice, clean solar power (and gas for other cooking) it should be okay, but I'm feeling more positive now.

    Will have to look into it more and start saving the $$!

    Fiona
     
  6. barely run

    barely run Junior Member

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    New stoves Fiona are very expensive...older ones are available but you would have to travel to find them.
    Have you thought about a pot belly stove...they are maily for heating but you can easily slow cook as they have a solid top...our wood heater is the more traditional square one with glass door but through winter the kettle is always on it... nearly boiling most of the time. Have cooked bits and pieces stews etc. as well. Also was a great heat improver on The Inventors last year ...made in WA...burns cleaner and hotter....keep meaning to find out more.
    Cathy
     
  7. fiona

    fiona Junior Member

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    I bake a lot of bread etc, so would love to be able to use the stove for that in winter. Thanks for the suggestion though.

    I have looked in the trading post etc but haven't found much second hand yet.

    Fiona
     
  8. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Fiona,

    Wood burning cookstoves can be bought cheaply if you keep youe ear to the ground. I know Australia has a long history of making great woodburning stoves. We have one, an old stove that is missing the door on the firebox, which lets us monitor the fire, and boils beans and bakes bread at the same time. Our kitchen would be considered an outdoor kitchen by most temperate climate people, so while the stove does get hot, it never makes the kitchen uncomfortable.

    We have had our stove 10 years, and had to replace the stove top. It was smoke free in the beginning, as the stack effect from the air rising up the chimney sucked air into the fire box. Now it needs to get going before it sucks all tha air, but it is a huge improvement over a fire hearth, which is what we used before (and most people in Maya communities use).

    Some stoves come with "water jackets", and these add the wonderfulness of hot water to the equation. A good web page on home made wood burning cook stove with oven, designed to act also as a heater, etc: https://www.gulland.ca/homenergy/stove.htm
     
  9. greeny

    greeny Junior Member

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    Ive been researching the same. There are only three stoves that I am interested in. They are heaters with glass door and hot water option, but also have oven and hotplates. They have it all!
    The problem is the price :( .
    The best IMO is the Thermolux Gourmet. The others are the Scandia Cuisine and a Nectre model , a cheaper version of the Gourmet designed at an earlier time for a different company by the same person.
    None of them will fit my current flue so there is a lot to it.
    Ive decided that I will make my own solar hot water heater ( there is plenty of information around) to save costs and buy a second hand insulated water tank to store the water from the stove and solar heater.
     
  10. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

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    Arby, thanks for all the great tips and information.

    I love my woodstove, and it has a catalytic converter and a glass door to watch the fire, which is always a pleasure and let's you spot any changes quickly. It's a Yotul, and although it's not a cooking stove, when the door is on the front of a woodstove, it does allow you to use the top for cooking. I think it's easier to tend the fire from the front, and for rearranging logs while stoking the fire.

    And there are lots of pretty porcelain covered cast iron pots and regular cast iron cookware that are great to use on it.
     
  11. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Mollison talks a lot about the difference between radiant and convective heat in Jeff's mp3 set. Metal stoves give off convective heat, which is way, way, way less efficient than radiant heat, which you get from tile or brick stoves, which are more common in Europe and Asia apparently.
    The heat from radiant stoves feels more like the sun, and apparently stays with you a lot more than convection heat.
    I realise that this thread concerns cooking stoves, but if the stove is for heat at all, it might be worth researching the kacheloven.

    https://www.motherearthnews.com/Alt...es_That_Can_Heat_Your_Home_and_Cook_Your_Meal
    https://www.demotech.org/design/designA.html?d=15
     
  12. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

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    Richard, interesting about the thermal mass fire stove!

    Yeah, the cardboard dries out where I am because there's no rain for 8 months or so, and it's just another chore for me to keep it wet.
     
  13. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    I've seen one of those stoves, with all of its mass, etc, and the trick is to build really hot, clean burning fires. It consumed a great amount of firewood at one time, and then radiated heat without any fuel for hours, and overall consumption was reduced. They are much more efficient than a metal stove. They can be beautifully made, too.

    I had a book that showed one in.... New Hampshire...Vermont... maybe Maine? that had an oven and cook stove top built into it! Clever idea! I lost that book in the hurricane..... :(

    So if space heat is what you are looking for, this is a good way to go.

    My mother built a house with radiant infloor heating. The air temerature would be cool, but because the floor was warm to the touch, it never felt cool. Her heating expenses were quite low. I believe in radiant heat!
     
  14. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Fiona, I found the site, what Kimble and I call "stove porn" (forgive us, I think it's a guy thing), A SITE FULL OF AUSSIE STOVES! All jokes about woodies aside, there are some great stoves in here:

    https://pivotstove.com.au/index.php/products/cat/18

    Enjoy!

    C
     
  15. jackie

    jackie Junior Member

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    fiona I've got a wood stove with wet back and love it. Took ages to find in the trading post went to hay barns and looked at pieces of junk all over the state but ended up with a great stove. The brand is Wamsler. If you ever see one they're briliant. Very powerful wet back could do the hydronic and hot water. The stove is insulated but the entire top is for cooking with lift up covers so can have all covers up when heating the room. Kitchen area is 5x8m with a 10 ft ceiling and is toasty in an hour or two. Oven is big with a window in front and a temperatre guage in glass. Will burn, wood, coal, coke etc. My understanding is that it came from Germany and that they stopped importing them 10 years ago because exchange rates made them just too expensive. over $10000 then. We stumbled over it in trading post from a holiday house was like new. Definately worth the looking and wait. Saw many Rayburns in our travels. Feel the cook top is too small and so is the oven. But depends what you want to do with it. I love cooking and can have at least four pots on the top of mine at the same time. The spot over the fire box is your hot spot and the far side for simmering. If you get a small cook top you will be limited if you're trying to boil two things at the same time
     
  16. jackie

    jackie Junior Member

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    Oh and I almost forgot. Your water tank needs to be as high as possible in roof as the solar part is you're incorporating that needs to be lower than it. Remember hot water rises.
    jackie
     
  17. Brandubh

    Brandubh Junior Member

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    combustion stove

    Scandia stoves in Seymour Victoria sells new stoves, I have one of the 'cusine' and it is wonderful. I understand they sell reconditioned stoves as well. You would be able to get it shipped (not sure about the cost)
    Where the stove is placed can make a difference. My previous house had a large kitchen with the wood stove at the far end, great for heating the kitchen, but because of the house layout that was the only room it heated.

    The water jacket is a great boost for the solar hotwater.

    Because of the water jacket we had to get a plumber to install the stove (that was pricey)

    I also have a gas stove (LPG), bugger lighting the stove on a hot day!
     
  18. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

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    One other thing to keep in mind, the size of the wood burning stove determines the size of the fire and the amount of wood that's used each time, which can add up in wood expense and time to get it heated.

    I have a small stove that will hold two 15-inch logs and some kindling, and it can heat 1300 square feet of unobstructed space. It's a small fire that I can get up to 250 degrees in about 45 minutes from a cold start. Then once there's a layer of embers on the bottom, it only takes one 15-inch log an hour to keep it at that temp, meaning that even on a cold evening, a 6 hour fire would use 6 logs.

    I have a larger wood stove that requires 3-4 logs to get it up to 250, but it takes at least an hour. It requires more logs to keep the temp up. So it's a bigger fire each time, and one log won't keep it at 250 degrees.

    So you might think, well, we'd better get the mid-sized one just in case, but unless you are planning to heat 1800-2000 square feet of open space, a small one does a really good job.
     
  19. Plumtree

    Plumtree Junior Member

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    Many of these 'wood' stoves do not effectively burn wood but do best with coal or coal nuggets. Wood will burn in them but the heat for cooking may not be adequate. The English cookers such as the Rayburn and Aga really need some coal for good heat.

    A few Aussie and many American stoves have the large burners required to use wood effectively. You need room to put in large size logs or you spend a lot of time chopping and feeding small sticks to keep the fire hot.
    A big burner is very important and needs to be considered before buying a stove.

    Frankly, the water heating aspect is another thing that tends to be over rated with cookers. We had an old 'Carmichael Sucess' cast iron stove that had a water jacket but when used just for cooking you got very little additional hot water. However, when you kept a fire going day & night over a period of time you gained a lot of hot water with steam coming out of the roof top 'shepherd's crook'.
     
  20. jackie

    jackie Junior Member

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    Water heating is great with the wet back the kW rating is what I understand to relate to this. My stove has a 17-20KW rating on max and understanding now how much this is I should have hydronic heating in my home. We have a 400l water tank high in the roof to thermo syphon? the water. ( water cycles through system with the hot water rising to the tank.) I f I light the stove early in morning and bake bread and more in a day I have trouble cooking tea as the tank in the roof is making a rolling boil sound and I'm not game to put any more fuel in the fire.
    My fire grate rises and lowers. The idea is high in Summer for less heating of water jacket and low in winter for a bigger fire. Also for summer if your stove is well insulated and you have hinged insulated lids on top cook plate its the best it can be. I love my gas stove in Summer and My wood stove for the rest of the year.
    If I ever more house it's the one thing comming with me. Somehow...
     

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