Why is it I could get a goverment grant for satalite broadband easy as falling out of a tree and yet trying to get a goverment grant for solar power is an uphill struggle? Then at the end of that up-hill climb its only a pittence anyway, with a million conditions? (so I've heard) Same goes for rainwater tanks. Makes one wonder if the Gov are really serious about combating climate change.
Teela - why would you think this Govt is serious about combating climate change? Has Australia signed the Kyoto agreement? [/quote]
G'day teela Could I suggest a response to your question? Governments are so stupid because stupid people put them there. Harsh, I know, but a government is only as good as the people who vote them in. The only way I can see a way forward (after half a life-time of asking myself the very same question) is to create a truly enlightened global community that is free of 'stupid' people and therefore free from 'stupid' government. Not an easy task, I'm sure you'll agree. Inequality is the greatest barrier to education and thus freedom from 'stupidity'. But how do we educate the masses rather than endoctrinate? My belief is we start in our own back yard (zone 1), and work out from there. Infiltrate your local council; plant the seeds of permaculture everywhere you go, and eventually we will see the fruits of our labours. Provide the 'stupid' people with rational and reasoned knowledge - born out of careful observation of our natural environment - and wisdom will surely follow. Cheers, Mark.
Why don't the government tax resource use and pollution creation instead of personal income and business profit? It seems strange that the person running the permie course gets taxed at the same rate as the person cutting down the forests. Maybe if people had to pay to destroy the environment, they might think twice about it.
rebates are a poor way to get people to think more sustainably, rebates on water tanks and solar power just equate to easier and more profits for the suppliers/makers, not value for money spent on tax payers behalf and not doing much for the environment either well apart from the environment of the profit makers pockets. and as for the sattelite broadband rebate, i believe everyone should have the opportunity to avail of broadband service but i don't think rebates are the best way to achieveing this, as in the above cases it pushes end prices up for greater profits. and as for taxing different industries so as to penalise for damaging the eco' system that won't work as those who do the damage will simply pass the extra cost on down to the lowest common denominator 'US'!! who can least afford it. me i just think we have to move on from party politics to run our country, we need something akin to a team to run us like a sutainable business, where we the people have the power to hire and fire. the greatest downturn in the voting system the advent of the 18 year age group vote. len
the saying that springs to mind about our current govt ( seen a sig on a political board ) is not all conservatives are stupid - but most stupid people are conservatives :lol: :lol: :lol: Len when you aid you describe govt by consensus ....... the Greens "party" is run by consensus ......... and contrary to the way the media keep calling Bob Brown our party leader :-x the party has NO leader just a team of policicians - presleted by every member who bothers to vote frosty
I live in an area where a rainwater tank is essential, so I don't get a rebate. Because of the rebate, however, tanks have become more expensive, and there's a wait of around three months. So why are governments so stupid? :lol: :cry: :evil:
That's the idea len. If business had to pay for their environmental costs, we could stop a lot of the damage they do. This would allow companies who do the right thing to compete. At the moment, a lot of costs are externalised to the envionment or to the general public (think health costs associated with pollution). If people had to pay the true cost associated with the products they buy, it may be possible to create a more level playing field. Don't forgt I would also want a removal of other forms of tax that we pay. Living simply without having to pay land tax or tax on your income would allow it to be a more attractive lifestyle choice.
alex, that's so true even up- here mate, no rebate for rural folk who ahve no other water resource, just dearer tanks that they have to now wait up to 12 weeks for, initially the tank companies stopped discounting tanks to rural folk and slugged them full retail now that the gravy train is well entrenched the cost of tanks ahs risen, rural tank makers not so much as these rip off lords in the cities but. bovine_blue, i would agree to making buisness more responsible through taxing but it would need to be a direct tax that could be monitored and then how would you stop them from passing it on down the line anyway. even with our water restrictions if they force cost pain onto buisness they won't care as the little people already feeling the pain of restrictions and extra water cost will just get hit at the retail counter as well and greedy share holders will still profit with no pain. the gov' would have to put on a price freeze at which time those companies would then shut up shop and move off shore, so there is only ever going to be a win lose situation hey? len
Tanks are made of oil-based polymers and current tank prices reflect a massive increase in oil prices over the past few years. Wheelie-bins, witches hats and 'plastic' boats have all risen dramatically in price.
I was originally after a steel tank (for fire protection), but baulked at the price and the long wait. The slightly cheaper plastic happened to be in stock at a local supplier. When I mentioned to the deliverer that I had wanted steel, he said that he also delivers water to rural households, and is seeing relatively new steel tanks starting to rust. They don't make anything like they used to. :cry: Maybe they never did. :wink:
go for the poly alex, the zincaluum not anywhere enar as good as the old galvenised days, steel tanks that are not aqua coated (more expense) last about 5 years get a cement tank if you are realy concerened about the fire factor. len
You're right, Len. My permanent home will have a concrete tank, and I think that, as with so many things, if you want a good job done well, you often have to do it yourself. And they don't have to be boring, bulky cylinders! For anyone interested, here are some interesting links to do-it-yourself tanks: https://aquamor.tripod.com/rainwaterb.htm https://www.oasisdesign.net/water/storage/ 8) https://www.green-trust.org/2003/ferrocement/default.htm https://www.lboro.ac.uk/well/resources/t ... -tanks.pdf 8)
Re: why is the goverment so stupid? Sadly, they are not. With few exceptions, they're serious about holding onto power and the ensuing personal benefits. Everything else is a side-issue.
g'day alex, i have seen a few cement tanks with cracks that need reparing in that event the water level need to be below the repair line. not sure if by ground vibrations causing it but one bloke opted for a poly tank for his second tank after his cement tank cracked a couple of times. can see the fire resistance of a cement tank being needed for a tank out in the paddock or up a hill where fire can get to it, but around the home you should have a 10 meter clear or fire management zone anyway, and for tall trees 60 to 100 meters away for lots of reason other than fire. have a look at how we had our tanks they where near the home so logically if they where going to be damaged by fire then the home would as well, but we had the mangement zone, and the only shrubby trees near the home were the sort where the foliage could be cut off in the event of a fire and they would re-sprout. fortunatley for qlders we don't get those tree top infirno's like happens down south, most of ours are at worst scrub fires or grass fires, and yes people do suffer and loss of building/stock but mostly you will find that their management is lacking and they take risks beyond their capacity. at the end of the day life is more important than any other consideration. len
len A cement tank should be fine if it is done properly. The main problem with cement is that there is so much variability in the end product depending on the quality of the workmanship.
Unless the election is stolen! 8) About water tanks, I live in an area where everyone has a water tank for rainwater catch. I currently have a 10 year old Doughboy above ground swimming pool with a food grade liner. It is now falling apart and has sprung a leak or 2 or 3. Yikes! :? So...I was going to spend about $2,700 to get one of the new steel tanks with a food grade liner as I run the whole house and animals off it. The tank itself is $1400 with liner and the price includes a new cover, bracing and pad refurbishment. Too bad they are not galvanized, but glad to see they can be painted/treated against rust. I haven't seen any here done that way, but will certainly look into it!. We have acid rain/air here a bit of the time due to the active volcano, so things rust quite easily unless covered with a plastic or wiped down religiously. I had a covered inground concrete rain catch while living in the Marshalls. The only thing is, it leaches stuff into the water and so was okay for everything but drinking. In the 2 years I was there, we had no problem with cracks, but I remember siphoning it out and scrubbing it down with bleach a couple times a year. I think water out of a plastic barrel tastes funny. My great grandparents had the old whisky barrels for their rainbarrels. Hardened oak and charcoalaized on the inside (or whatever the real term is for it hehe). That was some sweet water. I am so glad I found this site and all of you. I have been learning so many new things in the last couple of days. gg
We are in Kilkivan, very rural, and have just bought a 5 000 gal plastic tank. We got the tank rebate and the tank was only two weeks from order to delivery. Delivery was free too. Must admit these things surprised us!
g'day arawajo, that's good news about the delivery time, who did you buy from if i can be sold bold as to ask? and in ball park figures what price was it? that's a good sized tank we live in the suburbs and we got one that size, pretty much should make us highly self reliant on our own water. at least tanks that size make the rebate good value for money as far as the gov' spending tax payers money goes. lots in the city simply don't aks enough questions around the traps before they consider a tank so they end up buying much dearer tanks from city makers when rural makers deliver far better deals, as you found out. len
