white sapote tree losing its leaves

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by teela, Dec 5, 2006.

  1. teela

    teela Junior Member

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    Help, my White Sapote tree is losing its leaves.
    I don't have much experience with these trees. I planted it last year purely as an experiment along with my Mango tree. Then we had the worst frosts in 20 years, sadly the Mango passed away, but the Sapote never even looked sad.........until now, its losing it leaves but has a few juvinile fruit. Perhaps this is normal for this type of tree? It gets regular watering, frosty weather all gone now, but the odd day of 40deg.
    Anyone?
    Teela
     
  2. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    from the purdue university hort. site (that comes up in the top ten when you do just about any plant google),

    Are you getting "some leaf shedding" or complete leaf drop? Hope it'll be alright. I really love those things!
     
  3. teela

    teela Junior Member

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    sapote

    Richard hi, Its mostly just the top leaves. Perhaps the intense sunlight has caused this? The sun here is very hot and things burn easy, It will just have to adapt to the conditions here.
    Last year when I planted it, we were having the second year in a row of very tropical type weather, mild winters. Low and behold then we get the coldest (and sadly one of driest) winters on record.
    Weather wise we just don't know what to expect anymore in this part of the world.
     
  4. dryland dweller

    dryland dweller Junior Member

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    cant help with the leaf shedding Teela but mine got hit with frost 2 years ago and looked like a stick as did the mango but both came and the white sappo is good glossy leaves etc the mango regrew from a side shoot and a strong wind broke it off . Tried to hold it on with grafting tape but it died.
    My sappo is in a big pot under the almond tree and I will plant it out next spring as I didn't have the area prepared this year :shock:
    My black sappo died in this years frosts so now to get more seeds and try again :D
    Pete
     
  5. sz

    sz Junior Member

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    Hi Teela,

    I've got a white sapote in a pot next to my house, and it's probably experienced a degree or 2 of frost several hours every night for the last couple of weeks w/o any problems. It sounds like yours has been exposed to worse conditions, though.

    As has already been mentioned, it's kind of a cloudforest tree - it seems to prefer moderate, cool to warm temperatures. Have your freezing nights been followed by hot days? It's possible that the top leaves have been getting covered in frost, and then burned if they heat up too quickly in the morning. It's also possible that the top leaves have been taking the brunt of the frost damage and protecting the lower ones from the worst of the cold.

    It's mostly a california board, but you might look at:

    https://www.cloudforest.com/cafe

    Where white sapote cultivation gets discussed fairly regularly. Many of the people posting to this board deal with frost on a yearly basis, and they might be able to offer more insight into the problem.

    Cheers,

    sz
     
  6. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    cool forum sz. thanks! :D
     
  7. sz

    sz Junior Member

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    No problem Richard!

    It's a fun board to watch. I'm not sure how the growing conditions in central california map to those of teela's, but I figured it was worth a shot.

    If you follow the chat for awhile, you'll find out that you probably live in a climate that most of the regulars dream about.

    Hawaii (in my case, Hana) was one of the most beautiful places I've visited. Unfortunately, I suspect land prices would preclude me from ever moving there.

    Cheers,

    sz
     
  8. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Yeah, totally. You've really got to admire their tenacity in trying to grow stuff where it gets so cold! Probably their climate is something like Kula (something like 3000 ft elevation) here on Maui where they can get the subtropical apples and stonefruit. I guess I enjoyed seeing photo's of the different varieties and reading discussion about them... some knowlegable people there. Nice sense of community too. Bit like here.
    We are about half way between Kahului and Hana, which is a nice compromise. I don't imagine we'll ever be able to buy any land title here either! But it is a nice place to scratch around for a while. :D
     
  9. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    The one thing i did notice was........


    No one mulches their trees from what ive seen on the picture posts.....

    No wonder they have so many Temperature Fluctuations


    Tezza
     
  10. sz

    sz Junior Member

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    Ah, I know that many of them do mulch their trees heavily. Maybe the pictures just don't always reflect that. :D


    Here in the continental US, we don't have the benefit of thousands of miles of ocean between us and the nearest pole. No matter how much moderation the pacific current affords, sooner or later an Arctic express hurtles down and nips our plants. It's the difference between the average lows and the extreme lows that is the problem.

    But even then, I'm really getting close to the edge for unprotected subtropicals. My avocado tree grows mightily spring-fall, only to get nipped back during intermittent frosty spells mid-winter. Unfortunately, it's gotten a little too big to protect easily. Citrus grows but ripens slowly; grapefruit doesn't really ripen at all. It doesn't help that our lot doesn't get much winter sun.

    If you're curious about the climate differences, and don't mind staring at numbers, https://www.wrcc.dri.edu/summary/climsmnca.html

    covers the area that a lot of the posters on cloudforest live in.

    Graton (#seventy-eight) is probably as close as you will get to my microclimate. I'm in a cooler AND colder place than most of the rest.

    sz
     
  11. lgal

    lgal New Member

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    does anyone know where to get sapote seeds??

    Hello, we are currently setting up a sustainable community in Northern Thailand and are trying to find some chocolate pudding fruit seeds (black sapote, also yellow and white) ....Does anyone have an idea where to find these seeds? Thanks.
     
  12. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Hi and welcome,
    Please tell us lots more about your community!
    I am not familiar with a source in your area but it may help to know the botanical names of plants you are looking for.
    For instance the Black Sapote is Diospyrus dignya, and is actually more closely related to the Persimmon (Diospyrus kaki) than to the White Sapote (Casimiroa edulis) or the Green Sapote (Pouteria viridis).
    I think sapote comes from the spanish is a generic sort of word that simply means "fruit"...
    Another point is that you will get better fruit and sooner if you plant grafted plants of improved varieties in most cases. May be more difficult to source than seed, but probably worth the trouble.
     
  13. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    from
    https://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/NewItems.htm

    CASIMIROA (kas-i-mir-O-a)
    RUTACEAE. Central American trees grown for edible fruit.
    —Casimiroa edulis. (5) CASI-12. Packet: $4.00
    'WHITE SAPOTE', 'ZAPOTE BLANCO', 'CHOCHIZAPOTL' (Nahuatl name meaning 'sleep sapote'). Yellow-green 3 - 4" fruits with soft, creamy, sweet custard-like pulp with a banana-peach flavor. Tree to 50 feet, but pinch the terminal bud to form an umbrella-crowned tree. Glossy green 3 - 5" leaves, divided fanwise into 3 - 7 leaflets, and fragrant green-white flowers. Mexican highlands, stands some frost (stands more cold than avocados). Zone 9. Mature trees can produce several hundred pounds of fruit annually. Overindulgence in the fruit is said to induce sleep in about 2 hours, and said to ease rheumatism. Bark, leaves, and seeds said to be used to induce sleep, and the seeds as an aphrodisiac, undried seeds said to be poisonous. Start seeds in pots, plant out when 3 feet tall. For best germination, peel off seed coat, soak overnight.
    Info and photos link: https://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/62618/
    General info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_sapote
    Research on aphrodisiac properties: https://www.aphrodisiacsnatural.com/casimiroaedulis.html
    Use for sleep: https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=55376

    [​IMG]
    https://jorjette.com/about-food/uncommon-fruits-and-vegetables/
     
  14. capricorn45

    capricorn45 New Member

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    So the Casimiroa is a subtropical rather than a tropical tree. Has anyone grown it successfully in tropical conditions? I am asking because I would like to grow Casimiroa near Hua Hin in Thailand where temperatures are near 30 deg C nearly all year round and there is about 1 m of rainfall each year. Or, would I just be wasting my time?

    If I was able to grow them there, I wonder if anyone knows of a source of grafted trees in Thailand.
     
  15. aroideana

    aroideana Junior Member

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    It will grow and bear in humid wet tropics . Have seen it north of Mossman , and eaten fruit from that tree . Also mate has it fruiting here in Tully [ one of the wettest towns in Qld 4m annual trainfall ]
    Great thread on Daleys fruit forum discussing growing this tree in cold temperate South Australia also .
    https://www.daleysfruit.com.au/forum/problems-with-white-sapotes-pics-included/
     

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