Where would you move?

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by sz, Dec 20, 2006.

  1. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    yep grasshopper that's the one,

    but this scam science fix will not affect those rich who don't control what i think, i just use sense and common sense and the conspiracy has none of that. they don't even have facts outside of mathematical speculation.

    we've been reducing and trying to gorw as much of our own for over a decade no long before climate change science surfaced publicly, our average water us is 35 to 50 litres per day for both of us.

    len
     
  2. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Len - we may not agree on why you and I do what we do - but I sure as heck respect you for doing what you do! And I hope to one day do it as well as you.
     
  3. bazman

    bazman Junior Member

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    I think I would like to move some more permies around me and a few of my neighbours further away. I would also like to move the road away from me as it seems to attract more and more bogans on 2 wheels and 4.

    I love it here, it's just that 14000 houses have been allotted just over the ridge from me which will bring more urban bogans. Strange things are happening around here, my land value when up $165000 this year alone, next door went up $200000, we are not in a development zone as we are zoned in a protected water catchment. I would be happy if all this crap urban development bullshit would just go away.

    There are one or two spots on the sunshine coast which I like, very much like one little semi rural valley I have visited in the last few months. :) I wish I was closer to many of the Sunshine coast permies as when ever I am around this group of wonderful people I feel very much at home.
     
  4. matto

    matto Junior Member

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    David Holmgren doesn't seem like a man to get caught up in conspiracy theories or pie sky stuff. He does however seem intent, with solutions, on informing people of the challenges we face with Peak Everything and Energy Descent as a global community, and to act now while the going is still good and use the last hours of precious sunlight to help our childrens future.
     
  5. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    that might come down to that saying judging books by their covers?? dunno, i too am amazed at how many apparently intelligent people can get caught up in nonsensical processes.

    len
     
  6. matto

    matto Junior Member

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    Your taking a swipe at some very good friends of mine...

    What is the basis of your argument against say... Peak Oil?
     
  7. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    have i mentioned anyone's name(s)? no!!

    so your judgement is off the mark, i am generalising the facts as i see it, me not driven by false doctrines of men which the sciences come under.

    peak oil which strangely is only ever heard of in these type forums is never mentioned in the broader community, and again is a theory like the climate change theory, not helping fellow man for the future instead making huge profits for gov' and multi-nationals.

    see too many like i say apparently intelligent people locked into boxes and behind comfort zones. i stated before my basis to these things is sense and common sense, backed up the fact that those who spread these fear mongering beliefs are only theorising, and no matter what theory is just that theory, we will never see fact. if we did the whole world community would collapse including rich and gov' alike. i feel my mind is clear of all those driven emotions.

    len
     
  8. matto

    matto Junior Member

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    So you don't believe in science. Thats cool, you are doing all the right things anyway, consuming less, feeding yourself, etc.

    The friends I talk about are all working permaculturalists, following the science of Peak Oil that has been brought about by independant research. They are using their influence within the greater community to try and steer people into a permaculture thinking and action.

    Any permaculture course will explain the science of peak resources and the motivation of this into action.

    Are you suggesting we live in a world of infinite resources, that somehow it will be provided for if we jusy go out and dig or drill?
     
  9. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    chuckle you are converted hey? oh! well that is your choice, i don't say any thing is infinite, but because some notaries support this theory or that does no make it true and correct, in the end men do things for ego and station, and in the broader community because of the push for money permaculture still rates pretty low down there. but anyway you are seemingly firmly convinced that the theories are correct, so i'll leave it with you the names in your worship for you sadly remain unknown in the broader community.

    with fuel prices driven so high from greed what is going to happen here in aus' when our dollar falls against a somewhat worthless green back? got nothing to do with a theory but plenty to do with greed.

    len
     
  10. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    I dont think greed is the only factor.
    Supply and demand is a pretty simple concept
    Price goes up as demand increases and the reverse price goes down as demand decreases.
    This price pressure decreases when economies are in recession and need less oil.
    We are in a global recession Europe and the US in particular
    Yet the price has increased ???
    The price pressures aren't just coming from increasing demand but from decreasing supply.
    If the economies can get out of recession (which I doubt) the renewed demand will increase prices and bring on the next recession this will continue in a downward stair like pattern on a graph.
    The only way to stop this is to invent a new oil substitute that has all the stored energy, transportability and price of the current one.
    Its not going to happen.

    Thats why its a good idea to practice permaculture and live a simpler life and take your community along the journey with you.
     
  11. treetopsdreaming

    treetopsdreaming Junior Member

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    Hi bazman. I can definitely relate to your frustrations... Being surrounded by like minded people can make such a difference. I suppose that's why intentional (permaculture) communities always sound so appealing (in theory, you should at least be surrounded by people with a similar outlook).

    Wow, your land value increase must have come as a shock! That big an increase would double our rates - and who can afford that out of the blue? It's strange that from a "mainstream" perspective the increase is a positive thing. But, from an "alternate" perspective, this is an indication of bigger problems. Your gardens look absolutely amazing (what an incredible transformation)! So, at least you have an escape (most others don't these days)...

    Hi gardenlen, grasshopper and matto. Interesting sub-discussion... I'm not certain what to make of it all. Except, I do find it interesting that despite our different underlying motivations, we are all on this forum together trying to learn more about and apply permaculture principles to our lives (and the lives of others). Maybe our motivations (and beliefs) aren't as important as our actions in the end?
     
  12. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    living in like minded narrow field of vision suburbs might get quiet boring (and controlling) i would think diversity makes the world go round, as current chat sometimes reveals can't imagine a society of lemmings, leads to current piggy back theory worship. no i like a diverse community though we now live almost next door to an anti-live and let live older couple, like everything yuppie perfect and don't hesitate to dob others into council, they have sign up on road please drive slow, but ok that they don't (dust issue), anyhow my challenge is over time to get them outside their box and comfort zone.

    len
     
  13. andrew curr

    andrew curr Moderator

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    has anyone mentioned the moral superiority of kiwis in this thread
    pity the land there is so expensive and shaky
     
  14. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Find the place that is most content for your heart. I no longer live there for me, and each day I miss it... ..where my place is does not matter, what matters is the feeling connected to that place.
     
  15. Ludi

    Ludi Junior Member

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    I believe ( :) ) this is true. Kindness and mutual support/interdependence is more important than beliefs, in my experience with neighbors who are very different from us. Or maybe the motivation of kindness is the important thing, if it is acted upon.
     

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