When can you call yourself a Permaculture designer?

Discussion in 'Put Your Questions to the Experts!' started by Veronica Setterhall, Feb 5, 2016.

  1. Veronica Setterhall

    Veronica Setterhall New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2016
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Freelancing Copywriter
    Location:
    Tiefenbronn - Baden-W├╝rttemberg - Germany
    Home Page:
    Climate:
    Temperate Climate - Southern Germany
    I bet this question has been up before, but it keeps on showing up here and there.

    Can you title yourself "Permaculture Designer" or "Certified Permaculture Designer" after having participated in a 72 hour PDC course?
    Or are only people with a diploma of Applied Permaculture Design allowed to use the title "Permaculture Designer"?

    I'm asking since there is a lack of consensus on several websites and forums and I would like to know what is appropriate.
     
    LouisR likes this.
  2. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,046
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E Washington, USA
    Climate:
    Semi-Arid Shrub Steppe (BsK)
    Yes this question comes up.
    If you've taken a 72 hour (or more) PDC based on the Permaculture Design Manual and completed the design project, you are a Permaculture Designer. If the instructor(s) of that course offered a certificate of completion, then you are a certified Permaculture Designer.

    There are "moves afoot", mainly in the USA (it figures), to tightly control these labels by a group of self-proclaimed "Permaculture Elders". Need I say more?
    I do not speak for the PRI, however it is my belief that Bill Mollison purposely set up the system of Permaculture instruction to first and foremost get the concepts, ethics, and ideals of Permaculture into as many minds as possible as quickly as possible. Building an empire of bureaucracy to validate each and every utterance and control the issuance of labels was not part of his plan. From my knothole, Geoff Lawton has exponentially increased the reach of the design course via the depth and breadth of his high-quality online PDC. I will note that while the PRI takes an interest in certifying PDC teachers, they do not claim to be the single "authority", maintaining Mollison's goal of getting Permaculture activity going far and wide soonest.

    As Larry Santoyo said during the first Permaculture Voices convergence: "Expect nothing. Blame no one. Just get out and do epic shit."
     
  3. songbird

    songbird Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,780
    Likes Received:
    142
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    gardening, reading, etc
    Location:
    near St. Charles, MI, USoA
    Home Page:
    Climate:
    -15C-35C, 10cm rain/mo, clay, full sun, K-G Dfa=x=Dfb
    agreed Bill! :) money should never get in the way of doing. money that goes into central hands (which are likely richer) is that much less that would get out into projects and help the poorest among us.
     
  4. Veronica Setterhall

    Veronica Setterhall New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2016
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Freelancing Copywriter
    Location:
    Tiefenbronn - Baden-W├╝rttemberg - Germany
    Home Page:
    Climate:
    Temperate Climate - Southern Germany
    Thanks, that's how I had understood it too - but I prefer asking one extra time before going out claiming I'm this or that. From some older videos I've seen with Bill Mollison he seemed to be extremely critical to labeling people, setting up systems that mimic University degrees and so on.

    Titles shouldn't be important - what matters in my opinion is that you can show results of efforts you make within Permaculture and that you are able to look at your own work with a critical eye, always asking what can be improved. But I guess there is somehow a need to at least control who is able to teach a PDC to others to make sure it lives up to a certain standard. Other than that, titles are no guarantee that a person actually knows how to apply what they have learned in theory.

    But since we live in a world where people want simple answers to "What are you?" questions, it's so much easier to be able to say "I'm a certified Permaculture designer".

    Anyway, I totally agree with the Larry Santoyo quote. Let's do some epic shit here and only use the titles at times when people want that quick and simple answer.
     
  5. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,984
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Personally, I dont see how 72 hours is not enough to be a designer; 500+++ learning with someone like Geoff was mind altering, but that's my hang up because I totally agree with Gandalf, you completed the project & you are a designer.

    Gandalf, wth is a Permaculture Elder? Is that a tall Permie thing??
     
  6. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,046
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E Washington, USA
    Climate:
    Semi-Arid Shrub Steppe (BsK)
  7. Bryant RedHawk

    Bryant RedHawk Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Messages:
    607
    Likes Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Arkansas Senior Appraiser
    Location:
    Vilonia, Arkansas, deep in the woods
    Climate:
    USDA zone 7b,8a.
    What a bunch of politicking is going on in our permaculture world. Here's what I think, if you want a Diploma, go to an Accredited College. I have three degrees, does that make me an expert? No, what makes me an expert is the continuing practice of that education and the expanding knowledge that comes from practicing.

    I don't claim to be a permaculture designer.
    I have a permaculture practice ( kind of like a Doctor or (shudder) Lawyer.

    I can test your soil, and show you how best to make improvements so things grow better. I can show you how to lay out your gardens and orchards so water comes to them when it rains. I can show you how to collect rain water, re-use your gray water, and on and on. I can do all this for you not because I have two BS degrees and one MS degree but because I took all that knowledge and started putting it to use, observing my results, recording the good and the bad and the so-so and making changes to the way I do things so the next time around, everything works better. I have "designed" on both sides of the agricultural fence, I like the side I'm on now far better than the other side, it is also so much better for our earth mother, who allows all life to thrive.

    Without doing this, are you really doing permaculture? Or are you like most politicians, just in it for the money?

    I've noticed that most of those people screaming for a professional diploma to be instituted are not the ones who are out there spreading the word by example.
    I don't have a problem with folks wanting to be taught. I do have some issues with people who seem to only be interested in how much money permaculture can put in their pockets. While there is nothing wrong with being reimbursed for your knowledge, there is something just not right about saying that so and so doesn't have our diploma so they don't know what they are doing. I'd like for those people to make the same requirement of Bill Mollison, according to the "shouters" he should not be allowed to practice permaculture because he doesn't have their degree. How funny
     
  8. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,984
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I did an Intro to Permaculture from someone that learned directly from Bill M., and I did learn a lot, critically thought out a bunch of problems. However I did the online course with Geoff Lawton and I learned more in 1 week then I ever did with my 1st course. The sheer volume of things to be considered was extraordinary and I would never of thought or even learned to see them without such knowledge being passed on. Geoff has literally changed my vision of the world and I understand that all problems really can be fixed in the wardrobe closet that is Permaculture.

    That's how I see the difference about 72 vs 500+ hours.
     

Share This Page

-->