when a climax species loses its niche,,,it is displaced, or worse.

Discussion in 'General chat' started by kimbo.parker, Jan 2, 2014.

  1. helenlee

    helenlee Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Or maybe he wrote what he meant & it went over my head :angel:
    Not uncommon unfortunately :think: ...

    :)
     
  2. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,046
    Likes Received:
    200
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E Washington, USA
    Climate:
    Semi-Arid Shrub Steppe (BsK)
    Hmm. Let's take a breath here and review what we've seen within this thread remembering the axiom "integrate rather than segregate".
    1) Humans have always been individually self-absorbed and operated to protect "their own" from "others" .... therefore, we always will, so just live with it. This conflict is inherent, based on competition, and even by viewing the "big picture', it cannot be changed.
    2) Humans are like adolescent children who've taken the goldfish out of the bowl for an afternoon's play. Now the goldfish is dead on the carpet and the child has realized that play has ramifications. With that insight and some compassion, the child vows to be careful of goldfish in the future. This might equate to human's dawning realization of the havoc they've done to the planet and each other and will with awareness and conscious thought, strive to tolerance, acceptance, and cooperation in the future. Natural guilds of animals have been mentioned that bolster the argument that by cooperation, the sum can be greater than the total of the parts. Through cooperation instead of competition, humans have the capability for a more integrated whole.

    So the point is, will humans consciously choose their future actions as a cooperating whole? Or merely rationalize their divisive behavior through never ending excuses?
     
  3. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    "all cultures are equal and they should be able to live in your town,,,,even The Semen Warriors of New Guinea .????????"


    I'll just point out the straw man here. 'Equality', in the Australian context, doesn't mean that anyone from anywhere in the world can (a) live there and (b) do whatever they want. Australia has immigration laws, and it has its own internal laws that control what people can and can't do. So you are grossly misrepresenting multiculturism kimbo.

    I'm also highly skeptical of the value of the link you give about that tribe in New Guinea.
     
  4. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    Humans also have always been co-operative to varying degrees with those outside their own 'group'. In fact the boundaries of the group vary depending on time and context. Family, extended family, tribe, intertribe etc.

    People who see competition and co-operation as conflicted are operating out of a set of cultural values that aren't universal to all humans.

    Therefore humans already have inbuilt capacities for being able to integrate and segregate as appropriate. That modern humans can't or won't is another kettle of fish from the basic argument.
     
  5. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,441
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    chain your dog

    you and a few others -
    i get mistaken for GL quite a bit.

    wouldn't be the first time i've had to run for cover

    meanwhile; he probably enjoys all the love that being mistakn for me gets a person.

    bbbwwaaahaahaahaahhaa
     
  6. songbird

    songbird Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,791
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    gardening, reading, etc
    Location:
    near St. Charles, MI, USoA
    Home Page:
    Climate:
    -15C-35C, 10cm rain/mo, clay, full sun, K-G Dfa=x=Dfb
    cultural discrimination (not the bad kind)

    i think that is what k.p. is getting at, that he would like to be able to say, "i don't like that culture." without being seen as an *ist or *hole.

    if so, i'm in agreement. there are some groups or cultures i surely do not wish to associate with in any form if i can help it. it is not a matter of being a racist or phobe or anything like that it is, however, a matter of values and decisions based upon those values.

    like, i have no desire to support a culture which destroys the environment and i do not wish to associate with them as much as possible.
     
  7. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    ok, so you don't like Australians and don't wish to associate with them. How come you are on this forum then?
     
  8. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,441
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    jeezies pebble, take a Bex , have cuppa and a lie down....and a couple more Bex.

    you don't have to go down with the ship either....i'm sure i speak for many of those that jumped,,,,,it's OK,,,let go, join us.

    K
    on behalf of the Sectives
     
  9. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    Run out of anything meaningful to say kimbo, and now just being patronising?

    You keep on with the mistaken assumptions about me, instead of finding out who I am and where I am coming from. I guess that fits with your exclusionary model just fine.
     
  10. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,441
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    sorry pebs,

    i did have way more 'constructive' stuff - within the post previously but it seems to have been lost in upload - most strange - and only my remark about on behalf of the
    Selectives - uncontexualised by the actual post - vanished.

    never mind.
    a pity though, i thought it was fine work.

    45 degrees C here

    don't worry, I AM burning.

    k
     
  11. Rick Larson

    Rick Larson Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2013
    Messages:
    743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Give us a few pages worth of bio please!
     
  12. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    Lol, no worries mate. Rain here, been raining for a month, which keeps me cheery and the tourists away (now if there is a group that should we should be selecive about...)
     
  13. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    lolz again. Better you tell me what you want to know ;-)
     
  14. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    My parents came here by boat in the 50s
    They were escaping the persecution of becoming a minority in their homeland caused by mass migrations(ethnic cleansing), deliberately engineered after the first WW,
    They were also economic refugees looking for a better life, than subsistence farming in a harsh climate on limited ground and now with new rules designed not to favour them.
    They were "Christians" under Muslim rule for generations,living on their land in their village, when this was reversed and they came under Christian rule the problems started and they chose to come to Australia.
    The problem was mass migration and a new fervent nationalism and them not being on the right side when the new nationalists moved to town and try to prove how nationalistic they were.
    500 years of Ottoman rule under a conquering force with a different religion and nationality was far more tolerable than someone from your own religion but supporting a different ethnic team being transported to your village in droves.
    They decided to give up their land, pack up what they had, get on a boat and come here, they still speak their language and practice their traditions and grow and eat their foods, but quite like the beer ,footy, tennis and cricket and consider themselves Australians.
    Dad says we all won the lotto when they came here.
    Not just him but his kids and grand kids too.
    I hope we didnt change the local culture too much and make the local Australians feel uncomfortable in their own villages when we came here but Im sure we did.
    All the name calling and racism directed at us was probably their way of letting us know they weren't happy with the changes in their village.
    We got used to them and they got used to us,or maybe they just found newer people on boats to fear and hate.
     
  15. Rick Larson

    Rick Larson Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2013
    Messages:
    743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ok! I'll ask a few questions and see how you answer.

    What was your introduction to permaculture?
    What is your climate specialty?
    How do you make money?
    What is your educational background (include permaculture courses)?
    How much land do you own?
     
  16. songbird

    songbird Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,791
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    gardening, reading, etc
    Location:
    near St. Charles, MI, USoA
    Home Page:
    Climate:
    -15C-35C, 10cm rain/mo, clay, full sun, K-G Dfa=x=Dfb
    on-line is much different, besides, the culture here is one of permaculture, not as much the destroyers. so while i cannot limit my associations at least i am where more of my kind are.

    i was speaking more of "in person" association and cultural groups as i'm pretty sure k.p. is speaking of that realm.
     
  17. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    599
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    While it's true that some species will displace other species, it's not universally true. Swamps in most of Louisiana, for instance, are called cypress/tupelo swamps because 2 trees are the dominant species. I've not seen 2 Tupelo gum trees next to each other, but that's not to say that it doesn't happen either. Different types of dogs will form packs. I've seen potlickers, labs, pitbulls and chows in the same pack and this is not an isolated incidence. So why do humans find other humans that are slightly different to be so awful? Don't get me wrong, I can be pretty culturally arrogant as well(I am, after all, one of your beloved Poms living with the Yanks in the deep south. Just don't call them Yankees down here! It's akin to calling someone from Pakistan an Indian, or vice versa). I just try to work on my arrogance, because there's always something I can learn from other cultures. Unfortunately, religious views can make this a problem because some people are just too zealous about it. You can't do much about extremists.

    I'll have to agree with Mouse: Enclaves exist in a vacuum created by lack of friendship being extended;

    This vacuum breads ignorance. Ignorance breeds fear. Fear breeds war and conflict. And yes, this is a two-way street. Both sides have to want it. If people choose to not find out about these other cultures that have moved into the neighborhood, and if these new cultures choose not to learn the culture of their benefactors, then conflict and strife awaits both sides. The choice is basically yours to extend that hand of friendship, and it is also your choice to pick up a gun in defense of your world view. Personally, I'd rather extend the hand of friendship.
     
  18. Rick Larson

    Rick Larson Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2013
    Messages:
    743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What is a POM?
     
  19. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,046
    Likes Received:
    200
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E Washington, USA
    Climate:
    Semi-Arid Shrub Steppe (BsK)
    [​IMG]
    ??
     
  20. Rick Larson

    Rick Larson Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2013
    Messages:
    743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well then, as long as you feed it, there are no problems!
     

Share This Page

-->