when a climax species loses its niche,,,it is displaced, or worse.

Thank god for that on the first count
&
I agree entirely on the second

 

"everyone, everywhere, everyday"...............not a party i would attend

hey hi,

i went there, i got less than a third down the first page when the author refers to the anti multicultural position as extreme or an extremist point of view.

_______click,,,end enquiry.

___________________________

my 'anti' position is not 'in extremis', yours is.

[h=2]"everyone, everywhere, everyday"

....the Aust. Human Rights Comm. slogan

__________________[/h]is this taught in Permaculutre Design ? nup

in Permaculture we teach place, and design is always for place [ not everywhere ]

in Permaculture we teach guilds, and guilds are exclusive associations of benign species and cultures. [ not everyone ]
and

multicultural society has left an historical trail of misery and suffering, same old same old....and for some of us pissed off with this in our everyday, we're ready to say enough is enough [no more everyday]

_____________________________________

i am not racist - racism is something i have distant memories of - on the road to becoming the Misanthropist.....

my mum would swear i was a misogynist....pebbles thinks i'm a racist....

some think i have it in for christians, others think i'm totally islamophobic.....

and i just don't get where the confusion comes from......

i think you all are despicable human stew....garnished with some of my people.

i have to take the dish of crap just to get to the precious tiny garnish.

_______________________________________

 

I knew I shouldn't keep reading this.

i went there, i got less than a third down the first page when the author refers to the anti multicultural position as extreme or an extremist point of view.

Where does it state this? I just read through the page three times and I cannot find the reference you mean unless you mean this:

'Combating extremism should not mean yielding to the anxieties and fear that fuel racism and racial violence. Rather it requires a strategy in which the positive effect of multiculturalism plays a central role in providing a rational, democratic antidote against all forms of extremist action

...in which case I think you have mistook entirely the statement which means the opposite of what you state it does. Or is that not what you are referring to?

 

Tell us about multiculture in the U.K. love

ello cousins,

getting some Belgians i hear, and a few extra gypsies ( as if the pikeys can't provide )

it seems like such a little place - your england.

as i've posted previously - New England, just north of Perth Western Australia, is undergoing a population boom, Lots of Poms realising they can have sunshine by the seaside every day and hardly ever encounter one of the new english, that had so squeezed their existence in the motherland.

those New England Poms are quite clear on how they found the multicultural experiment.

and in a splendid irony both the poms(new aussies) of new england and the aussies (old aussies) they displaced are in total agreement - Multiculturalism sucks.

_______

i guess i'm looking for some corroboration of the failing of multiculturalism to sustain those evidently displaced by it.

and i think a Pom would be a likely 'voice of experience'.


k
go down t' ding deli, fetch dodo f' baby

 

Tom Calma
Acting Race Discrimination Commissioner

a)does this guy have Permaculture Training?
b)is this guys job a paid position.?

a) context; permaculture designer (me), at a permaculture forum (here) discussing elements of design (guilds) and going to lengths to maintain the relevancy of scale.(place)

and into this you bring Tom Calma.!!!

b) his is a paid position and he must be disqualified here for his pecuniary interest on the matter.

but
if i had mere minutes with Tom, and could free speak - we'd quickly decide we were on the same side - and he'd dig my multiculturalism over yours.

you are messing with language such that i get backed up against language dead ends which do nothing to advance the debate.......

dropping the racist card on me, when my immediate family is black, white and asian. ( but that doesn't count because...?)

i pointedly counter by separating ethnicity from culture......such that ethnicity is more racial than culture......but you refuse this insight with your dictionary entry which basically refutes a difference....

and in doing so, refusing to accept that i'm not proposing we all look, think and act the same.

________________________________________

i do the simplest of permaspeak when i alert you to the supra culture of species holding place, through Guilds.

{ if i've screwed up the meaning of 'supra' - i'm using it to call the summed effect, of multicultural activities that form the bottom line of sustainability of that association of species/ culture in that place, referring to that as the climax species in niche. }

guilds, exclusive associations of different species and different cultures ( each to their own ) that gives us the complex and cultural diversity of a niche - the supra culture of place.

________________________________________

ofcourse, here in permaculture central, to speak of guilds is to attract the attention of your bleeding heart progressives - who won't accept that 'all in' is not a recipe for harmony.

to suggest that other cultures are a necessary part of the mix ---before loudly decrying multiculturalism as bogus bullshit---is to let the message be lost.

______________________________________

and the message is;

as there are no 'other words' to describe mixing humans on cultural merit and
the smarts in leaving some humans out of the mix,

i find myself limited to using only words with pre conceived meanings and understandings that don't cut the context as well as i'd like.
so i need to 'cut to the context' and reverse engineer from there.

________________________________

so i have cut to the context 'Multiculturalism sucks',,,and (attempt to) reverse engineer your understandings,,,,using perma word Guilds.

_______________________________

so Pebs, racism aside-

Guilds - do you think that is something to do with gardening ???

Mouse - you don't believe in Guilds because that is not loving and too exclusive.

________________________________

is there a Permaculture Designer in the House??!!

 

As a biologist this is my understanding of guilds. I use this definition because I am to challenged to describe it myself.

Guild (ecology)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A guild (or ecological guild) is any group of species that exploit the same resources, often in related ways.[1][2][3] As can be seen from the list of examples below, it does not follow that the species within a guild occupy the same, or even similar, ecological niches. Guilds are defined according to the locations, the attributes, and the activities of their component species; for example, their mode of acquiring nutrients, their mobility, and the zones of their habitat that they occupy or otherwise exploit. The number of guilds occupying an ecosystem is termed its disparity. Members of a guild within a given ecology could be competing for some resources (such as space or light), while cooperating in resisting wind stresses, attracting pollinators, or detecting predators, such as happens among savannah-dwelling antelope and zebra.
A guild does not typically have strict, or even clearly defined boundaries. A broadly-defined guild will practically always have constituent guilds; for example, grazing guilds will have some species that concentrate on coarse, plentiful forage, while others concentrate on low-growing, finer plants. Each of those two sub-guilds may be regarded as guilds in appropriate contexts, and they might in turn have sub-guilds in more closely selective contexts. Some authorities even speak of a fractal resource model.[4] This is a concept that arises in several related contexts, such as the metabolic theory of ecology, the scaling pattern of occupancy, and spatial analysis in ecology, all of which are concepts fundamental in defining guilds.
An ecological guild is not to be confused with a taxocene, a group of phylogenetically related organisms in a community that do not necessarily share the same or similar niches. Nor is a guild the same as a trophic species.

You haven't told me what YOUR guild would consist of. You haven't explained how you would include and exclude certain people from your guild and on what basis. Can you explain how constructing/designing communities based on guilds will prevent conflict, greed, narcissism, dishonesty, discourteousness etc etc? How do you decide where and how you design and construct your guild-based communities and ensure equity in access to resources for all guild-based communities? And most importantly of all you haven't even explained by WHOSE definition of like-minded cultural attributes such guilds should be composed. What's your criteria and how do you achieve it? You haven't even explained to me what YOUR definition of Australian culture is. I don't have a clue what Australian culture is by the way so please enlighten me.

During the apartheid era South Africa was segregated by group - whites, coloureds, blacks and Indians. This was not just a construct of segregation by colour. This was justified by very similar things to what you now describe. That the four cultures and races would each be better off if they didn't mix. So each group was given lands for supposed self-determination as this was proposed to be better off for all groups. Where each group would be happy to do their own thing and keep to themselves. Except only one cultural group did all the deciding on all the important stuff for all the other groups. One 'guild' had more power than the other 'guilds'. When we insist on erecting social constructs based on subjective similarities and differences between individuals it results in a duality; it then sets up the 'other'. I don't go for us and them or my lot and the 'other'. Your proposal, far from being some permacultural-minded, quasi-natural guild-formed revolution in community formation, is just more of the same. The same shit that has history littered far and wide with the physical and cultural corpses of subjective division err... guilds.

 

no - not to enlighten you.

but for the meek,
those little humble people prophesied to inherit the earth, doubtlessly from some good design specific to the cultural nuances of the Meek.

i have spelled it out - i would use Frith....not that 'i' have to do anything other than default to nature which does this ...naturally.
All I have to do is prevent bogus human mismanagement.

You want 'ME!', to apologise for Guilds not being the fixall for the petty little things that humans with broken culture do?.....ask any permaculture leaders and see why they reckon guilds are a good idea......and just check and be sure that this stuff with 'Guilds', is something not confined to gardens, and is actually a bit of systems design stuff.

Whose culture and whose people - ??? from the onset i have been clear,,,,the only ones i want to save are the ones that are my people or good for my people.
I am not the least bit fuzzy on this....

i want good design for my people,,,and unless there is a good result for my people in even thinking about your people - i won't.

i don't need to define my culture to you beyond the broadest terms - i am 4th gen aussie, married a boong and made 4 kids, married an african and got one more....four of my kids tick the box marked Abo. and enjoy subsidy and fast tracked success.

We are Bogans,
race is not as important as the car you drive
but then i'm a cultural outcast........

i'm done / you're done

k

 

You really don't like me do you?

 

getoutahere, it has nothing to do with liking you.....
and i know i deleted the post where i enquired as to your menopause.

infact - i like you so much, i'm going to give you a present, the key to my place, so you can drop in and sus it for yourself.....

attached as a PM

and i'm going to trust that you will not give any one else this key - for no better reason than i asked you, and said please.

I surrender to this reality. I have no resistance to this reality. I am one with this reality. I surrender to the justice of our equality. I have no resistance to the justice of our equality. I am one with the justice of our equality.*

​

(* if the gods could just note this and perhaps cut me some slack that would be fine)
​

 

"so Pebs, racism aside-

Guilds - do you think that is something to do with gardening ???"


Stop being an arse kimbo.

 

Thank you. I have opened the present. It may take me some time to peruse the contents.

 

Over population.

It is the despoiler of so many things, especially frith.

Unfortunately humans have tapped into this cheap available energy thing and that has made it possible for them to move far out beyond their niches, beyond place at alarming new rates. When it happens so fast its difficult to integrate via frith.

Now we can create (whilst not ideal) quite comfy little environmental niches for us to live in most places on Earth. So we sorted out the immediate physical comforts but not the cultural/frithy things. To most folks with a flat screen and a disposable income don't really have to think about that much.

And over population is stretching it's ugly little fingers into your community now Kimbo, it's been a serious problem elsewhere in the world for quite some time. I suspect Australia claims it is getting Multi-C right because it is so new to it. It's not working in many other countries from what I understand...

 

Absolutely. What is your meaning of frith here?

I get it kimbo. Your debating partners are being political.

 

meet Pat Condell

[video=youtube;zZtc2ma2GEQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtc2ma2GEQ[/video]

 

the reason this discussion is in a permaculture forum; is because it is being considered in the context of systems design ( and Permaculture includes system design - for many )

the system design in question is that of Human Settlement.

and the challenges to this discussion are many -

_________________________________________ the debate continues

multiculturalism seems to run on the presumption that all cultures are equal.....and as such, deserve equal rights.
i say that all cultures are not equal, not even equivalent, and that extending the same rights to 'lesser cultures' as 'greater cultures' is downright illogical.

this sort of statement is like a red flag to a bull, to a large section of the population (Australia). Inevitably it attracts cries of intolerance, racism, bigotry , facism and so on.

who am i to judge a cultures worth?
from what holier than thou pedestal am i decrying such venomous lies? ....................and i certainly take the point.

______________________________________

it is a good point, but it is hastily thrown and landing wide of the mark.

i don't presume to judge for you - i judge for me ( and my people )
and the actions i take as a result of my judgement are nothing more than exclusion....( there really is lots of exclusion in systems design )

if the culture or peoples i judge as less than mine, also offer no synergy to mine, therefore no recognisable gains - i peacefully seek to exclude them - (dam Gandhi -ish)

__________________________________

but, if this all sounds too much like someone ( not of your people?) doing the judging on your behalf, for you to swallow it.....

i would have all those 'on the other side of the debate' just cut the crap and sit this test......are you honest, right here, right now........

all cultures are equal and they should be able to live in your town,,,,even The Semen Warriors of New Guinea .????????

https://www.somethingawful.com/news/got-semen/

__________________________________

or not?

 

NO. I AM NOT BEING POLITICAL IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. My stance has ZERO to do with POLITICS OR A POLITICAL VIEWPOINT. ZERO

 

Oh. So on what factual basis do you base your argument? Are you being religious then? Surely you don't believe the lion will lay down with the lamb? I suppose there is not enough here for me to make this distinction, anyway, sorry.

 

Earth care//!
people care !
return surpluss! How to achieve that???

I had an epiphany that Kimbo was a non du plume of G Lawton. I could be overtired from firefighting!
Loved ya semen K!

 

For any new members who just had a heart attack - Andrew gets a bit wild with his spelling sometimes :nod:

 

Or perhaps I missed something & he meant to post this in the dagy thread :think: