when a climax species loses its niche,,,it is displaced, or worse.

Lol, ok, I'm sure it was all just a big misunderstanding

 

nah, they don't shake hands like pakia,,,,

i've seen confirmation of this on Maori culture shows on SBS

'they' reserve the handshake for people they know - no t people they don't know and are just meeting.

i'm not a racist, both my wives and most of my kids have colour.

k

 

i'm not a racist - because it isn' t the way people look that inhibits positive relationship between us - it is the way they act , and this is rightfully cultural

i am culturally intolerant....but only of non synergistic ( to me/us ) cultures.....
cultural intolerance is the prime cause of clumping/, it is why zebras run round with zebras.

i 'm not doing anything as personally repugnant as racism - i am citing culture clash with example given that you said 'fuck' in your last post , or the one before - i'd say its working...

and my logic is solid - i checked.

community is an exclusive thing - particularly when it is irretrievably connected to place. .... a place for every thing and every thing in its place ....

why do you fight with the force young pebble?

 

Actually zebras don't just run around with zebras. They run around with impala, wildebeest and other plains game and also rely on the services of oxpecker birds. Each species exhibiting different preferences for vegetation, mating behaviours etc. but living together in space and time. They do this because it is mutually beneficial. It is evolutionarily advantageous to be part of a mixed group of plains game because (for various ecological reasons - trust me I am a biologist) it gives them a better chance of survival. You can see these mutualistic relationships with very diverse species throughout the animal world. But that is besides the point.

Race is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linguistic, religious, and/or social affiliation. - Wikipedia

I can be rather intolerant of people who are dishonest, discourteous and selfish for example. Those are behaviours of largely negative intent and ignorance and are not confined to 'races' but determined by individual mindsets. It is not our 'racial' differences which create friction or division it is what is in our minds. Intolerance comes not from difference in cultures it comes from within each individual's mind and how each person chooses to view both the outside world and themselves.

Community is NOT an 'exclusive thing' as can be and has been evidenced by the example of Australia itself - it is an inclusive thing. Your logic is not solid at all.

 

"I am a biologist"


Now this is interesting. Is it OK to ask what you do? (I have this awful feeling that a mod is going to smack me the next time I post an irrelevant comment on a thread!) What one does as a biologist has to be relevant on a thread titled "when a climax species loses its niche,,,it is displaced, or worse." doesn't it? :nod: :shake: :nod:

 

Well it's not that interesting actually because I don't do much at all, lol....I don't know if that is a correct statement I made because I am not employed as a biologist ATM or undertaking research or such. I am actually not working (other than on our property) and just happen to have a Science degree. I completed my degree a couple of years ago after volunteering in Zimbabwe as a research assistant with a Masters candidate who was studying the ecology of the Spotted Hyena. She was a single mature-aged (for want of a better term) Australian woman who did her Bachelor and Masters degrees whilst living and working with conservationists in Zim. I just got inspired. I wanted to spend more time in Africa with research groups albeit for relatively modest amounts of time (we still have a mortgage to pay after all!). Although I've spent a lot of time there both before and since the studying, it has been all leisure travel with my partner and my conservation interests are confined to support from afar mainly for fighting the horrific rhino horn poaching which is going on in RSA at the moment. Having that education can help inform some issues for me but I don't think this is one of them.

 

Oh thank god! Official sanction

 

:sweat:

HA! I bet you regret the zebra analogy now kp

 

Well I think it's fascinating.
You can't learn about one bit of life/nature without learning about it all. It's not one of those things you can pick & choose which units you want to do & then stay in your own little bubble. Not if you really learn about it. Because it is all symbiotic/interdependent. Ignoring that is the fatal mistake we've been making - thinking we can do this one thing (mining, pollution, population explosion, extinction) without it affecting anything else.
Fascinating & very relevant

 

All we have to find now is zebra-striped humans! Ha!

 

Now it's very funny you should say that Mr Larson ... because I have been thinking a bit about the young blokes I've seen on TV with the almost full body tattoos that are becoming popular lately (& some of the designs on some of them almost look like zebra stripes!) & I've been wondering why I have always had an aversion to tattoos. (For me personally - I have no problem with them on someone else - although I have to confess I am unconsciously tempted to make the stereotypical assumptions about the people who have them & I have to sit down & have a little chat with myself.) And what I came up with was my fear of identifiable markings. I'm one of those strange people who never had a poster on the wall when I was a kid (my best friends entire bedroom walls were covered in KISS!) & won't have a sticker on my car. I don't want a marker on my grave when I die.
Now what do you reckon that is about?

 

how about why a climax species ...

my own observations are that while nature may abhor a vaccume there are often cases where niches are vacant and the surrounding species may not capitalise on exploiting that niche for some time.

this is quite inefficient and different from how some would think when seeing a large gap in a system of resources. often they would want to fill that niche right away, to maximize production.

of course, the size of the gap, where it is, what the surrounding system and players are like, how intense the turn over is in species or turf, and many other factors. can't even begin to really list them all from sitting here thinking about it.

how does one distinguish between fallow space between two equally competitive species because neither can dominate and claim it vs. a space that is fallow because no species can claim it? one type of edge and another. the difference between the border between N & S korea being a now thriving habitat for wild species because the primary destructor is facing off with a rival gang of similar, the smaller species and those that don't need us can thrive in such stand offs. thank goodness. i'd like to see more such like...

 

for me skin is beautiful and interesting as it is along with the underlying structures, muscles and movements, things of line and shadow all worthy of themselves as themselves. tattoo isn't something i much like either, but to each their own, just reminds me too much of gang signs, warfare, tribal markings, turf stuff, me in you out, etc. and then the ultimate tattoo of the number of the prisoner in WWII.

some simply do it because they like pain and having something to talk about with others.

burial, i would like to practice one form of native burial custom. find an old tree and wrap me up with a few things i've liked in a blanket and hoist me up in there for the critters to have at it, in time i'll just rot, fall apart and be scattered about, some parts eaten and used just like any other organic and natural material. el finito. if someone later comes along and finds the skull or bones useful, have at it, peace, good use, bang a drum, make dice from my knuckles, etc., etc. it's all good with me. no marker, either.

all that will be left are words and hopes for the future. to get off this planet somehow as we are so isolated and vulnerable in this one basket. take the rest of the critters with us, as many as possible, bacteria, virus, etc. all go. it's past time to get going. wish i could have gone myself, as much as i love this planet, could love another too...

 

I have quite a lot of tattoos all but one of which I can cover up if I wish. It quite shocks and flummoxes some people in certain places when this little, demure looking individual in a sweet skirt and cardy outfit takes off the cardy to reveal a half-sleeve lol! The reactions of people are interesting. Each tattoo was chosen by me at a momentous time in my life and represents something special to me. They tell a story, but only a story that I know. I get them for myself and no-one else. My poor, late, dearly loved Dad would be completely horrified and appalled if he was alive!
The pain thing is interesting. I find it powerful in a complex sort of way - a couple of hours under the needle is an exercise in self-discipline for me. It is almost like meditation or mind training.
I also have no wish for a permanent or elaborate marker of my passing. No funeral, rambling eulogies or fuss. If possible my ashes will be tossed into the Zambezi river above Victoria Falls whilst the boys have a few quiet ones. That will do.

 

Well I'll stand ... bloody hell ... who'da thunk it? Ha! Here I am having formed on opinion of you through the aether-net ... lol ... & it was wrong! (You may concede that perhaps "Mouse in the House" doesn't quite convey that image? - well it doesn't to me anyway.) Worse stuff up than the zebra reference! Hmm. When I was at Djanbung I was amazed that most of the girls had tats ... but only "girlie" tats - you know - dolphins & Chinese symbols & things ... not half sleeves!!! Thats serious shit Well well well I have a lot more to say about this - about tats & culture & identifying markings & frith - but it's gunna have to wait till I go & get the cows & feed the dogs.

Your boys just increased in my esteem. Any boys who are game to punch each other out in front of a Mum who has half sleeve tats have balls

 

It's funny isn't it how we make assumptions based on really superficial things? I'm not immune, I find myself doing it too. At one time tattoos were more associated with particular groups of people (tribes, sailors, prisoners etc) and I guess this is how assumptions are formed. But now, the rise in popularity of tattoos has changed or is changing that. People get tattoos for all sorts of reasons. I find it a form of body adornment too I suppose. Yet, I only EVER wear one piece of jewellery. I have worn a round silver bangle on my left arm every single day of my life since I was about three years old that is never removed except to be exchanged for a new one (about number four now). It is a part of me now somehow. But no rings, earrings, necklaces etc etc. Never. And here's the thing with culture. I get really conflicted because I am a Jekyll and Hyde character; sometimes I feel the pressure to conform to the historic majority culture of small town Australia just to avoid the looks and the mumbles of people who make assumptions and judgements. So I cover up... and I would really love to do all sorts of crazy awesome stuff with my hairdo.....but I get intimidated mentally into conforming. And yet there is this whole other side of me that when cornered will come up swinging and screaming against the herd if push comes to shove over something I fundamentally see as wrong and to hell with the backlash. Now....since our town has seen an influx of people from all over including Chinese and Koreans (457 visas), Afghans and Iraqis and Iranians (refugees) and of course the ubiquitous Kiwis , I feel so much more comfortable. I'm not surrounded by one dominant culture that I don't fundamentally relate to (in spite of having been here since birth). There are all these amazing people of diverse cultures and I love it. I am respectful of them and so far I have only found them to be respectful of me.

 

the logic is still good.

i observe you trying to 'win' .....and not doing so well.

because zebra are culturally intolerant, they will only hang with those associated groups of species that share the physical and temporal niches they occupy.
this association of species, can be considered a guild.

the guild is an exclusive community, in place and time, that has a 'working relationship' which runs like a culture,,,,the culture of that physical location.......


i claim that community is exclusive....and you say " what about the community of australia",,,,"or what about the community of earth"

when you zoom out the focal point, to give yourself a greater scale.....such that now the community of australia or the community of earth fills your vision, ,,,,you need to bring the rest of the scale with you,


the community of australia leaves out the greater rest of the world
the community of earth leaves out the greater rest of the solar system.

the successful refute
should not take so long, or be so messy.

it is not here because it does not exist.

that nasty man with his exclusive communities and divisive talk,,,,

the way he keeps hijacking permapretty for his own bent agenda ----

and now he cites 'Guilds',
and calls these his culturally homogeneous groups.


guilds; different species, different organisms, practising the culture of place - the cultures of species with niche,,,,the homogeneous culture of climax species , in guilds, holding and sustaining niche.

_______________________________________

hahahaa

i lead you to water - drinking it is up to you.

 

So far you haven't led me to anything but babble and certainly nothing that resembles a cohesive, clear or logical argument which would give me pause to consider. I don't believe you have anything in this vision/position/hypothesis of yours upon which I want to spend any more time because I believe your thinking is profoundly flawed. And it's getting tedious.