What's the Australian permaculture idea?

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by FedericoItaly, Nov 19, 2009.

  1. FedericoItaly

    FedericoItaly Junior Member

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    Hi to all,
    i'm doing this question because i have to know the difference....
    the difference between the australian and italian permaculuture idea.

    i mean: in Italy permaculture (for the 99% people) is a system used by hippies and is not very implemented for production, for the rest of the people, permaculture is a valid system for production and for saving time and money.

    but... to avoid misunderstandings, i wish to know HOW permaculture works in Australia, in order to not going "off topic" with the forum :mrgreen:

    HUGS TO ALL! :)
     
  2. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: What's the Australian permaculture idea?

    G'day Federico

    Welcome to the PRI Forum.

    Not quite sure what you are asking for here, mate, but I'll have a go it answering it anyway. There you go, that's the universal way of how to do permaculture: Not quite sure about doing something? Doesn't matter! Have a go, and learn from the experience.

    I don't know the first thing about permaculture in Italy, so I can't help you with a comparison between our two beautiful regions. But what I am hoping for is that you will inform us (we Australians, and the rest of the world) how you do things in your part of the world. Oh, and Federico, don't worry about going "off topic", plenty of nice people here to guide you. Speak your mind, my friend.

    A couple of books I'd like to recommend (maybe you can ask your library to get them in?):

    This one is a great introduction to the practice of 'Australian' permaculture:

    Author: Lillington, Ian.
    Title: The holistic life: sustainability through permaculture
    Published: Stepney, South Australia: Axiom Australia, 2007
    ISBN: 9781864764376 (pbk.)


    And this one is great if you are looking for something a little more challenging from a theoretical perspective:

    Author: Holmgren, David
    Title: Permaculture: principles & pathways beyond sustainability / David Holmgren
    Published: Hepburn, Victoria: Holmgren Design Services, 2002
    ISBN: 9780646418445 (pbk.)


    Cheerio, for now, Markus.
     
  3. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: What's the Australian permaculture idea?

    permaculture is a method of design employed by hippies, capitalists, socialists, communists, old people, young people.

    it dont matter who you are, PC is a Science, you cant change the laws of nature.

    www.janahn.com.au
     
  4. abdullah

    abdullah Junior Member

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    Re: What's the Australian permaculture idea?

    permaculture is a method of sustainable gardening and living, it cant be restricted to one social/political/religious/cultural group.
     
  5. FedericoItaly

    FedericoItaly Junior Member

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    Re: What's the Australian permaculture idea?

    ok abdullah, i know that. thanks anyway.
    but that's not the point, please read my word:

    i'm not saying that permaculture is only for a restricted group of people, i only wish to know the difference between Italian ad Australian Permaculture....
    so: abdullah, you're from Melbournes, i'm from Italy.
    i think you don't know how Italians think about permaculture , thus i wrote my experience:
    but I did not want to be polemical, i just note my experience in Italy (permaculture comes just few years ago!!!!).


    so...let's go ahead:
    ??? what? Permaculture is a science or an holistic approach? there is a big difference in that,
    i read all of italian books about permaculture and i read the design manual of bill mollison: in this last book, Mollison describes different ways to approach to a design of a land....including the scientific method and the holistic method, so: permaculture are boths: holistic and scientific.


    but that's not the point of the thread!

    the points are the difference, just because i have to know, if in Australia, permaculture is used for profit production, because in my nation, permaculture is used only for "naif garden" and i'm looking for REAL application i WANT to do real application (first in Italy?) ...not ideal and utopian ideas...
     
  6. matto

    matto Junior Member

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    Re: What's the Australian permaculture idea?

    in australia from my view, most people are using permaculture to design their property to grow an abundance and variety of food, which uses enegy ( animal, human and machines ) appropriatly. to turn a profit from this people are teaching or becoming designers.
    in australia there is definately more focus on building community and teaching self-reliance.
    permaculture seems to be a way of finding solutions to problems of your area or climate, hence this would be quite different to your climate although somewhere in autralia would have a similar climate to your own, unless you are at altitude.
    im positive some people are employing permaculture in italy, maybe contact them thru the eco-village network or wwoof.com.
    and its also been my experience that the majority of people using permaculture in australia are surprisingly level headed people, concerned for the environment and really down to earth.
    hope this helps
     
  7. abdullah

    abdullah Junior Member

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    Re: What's the Australian permaculture idea?

    i didnt mean to come off over assertive my apologies.

    permaculture is used in varying levels by many different people whether they call it that or something else, some are hippies, some are normal farmers, some are regular city dwellers who left that for the country to start a new green life (we call it 'tree change'), some are environmentalists or just people trying to break free from consumer slavery.

    in australia there is people with large scale productive sustainable operations, there is at least one i recall 'permaculture village', and there are many demonstration sites around that people can visit and get inspired and take ideas to their home garden.

    i guess as it has been around here for a while and due to the work of activists and teachers it is almost a household word, although when quizzed many aussies wouldn't know much more than the word.

    i suppose the 'hippies' being people who seek out green or alternative lifestyles would naturally be the first to hear of and implement permaculture in some countries, until non hippies figure out that the methods actually work and the food they produce is better than the industrialised farm produced food.

    so what your living now could well disappear in a few years, having said that italy has a different social culture to australia, today on this very forum i read a post from an australian member who was visiting family in italy, that member mentioned the 'localised market' culture everywhere and that there was less trash so called food and chinese junk that graces australian shopping centres.

    so after writing this and remembering that post i realise that we are in two very different cultures, something normal for you, markets, is something strange to us, we see the benefit of it and there are a few around, how many other things are different from here to there, heaps i would imagine.
     
  8. gemjill

    gemjill Junior Member

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    Re: What's the Australian permaculture idea?

    G'day
    a good example of an Australian working permaculture farm is "The Food Forest" in Gawler, South Australia, https://www.foodforest.com.au and they produce a number of different products including 'value added' like wine and cider. I would suggest you have a look at the site, may help your question.

    I think on the whole in Australia that permaculturalists are still regarded mostly as hippies by the general public, and permaculture is by no means mainstream here at all - although inroads are being made; one of the most popular t.v. gardening shows here 'gardening australia' has two permaculturalists as presenters.

    It is only natural that we will have more permie development here as Australians created the concept, and it seems to have had more acceptance overseas in 'developing' countries where food and water issues are urgent.
    hope this helps
    cheers
     
  9. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: What's the Australian permaculture idea?

    Oh, and Federico

    I just want to support Leo's (janahn's) response below:

    But I would like to add, permaculture is not merely a science; permaculture is every 'science' known (and unknown) to humankind, combined.

    Cheerio, Marko.
     
  10. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: What's the Australian permaculture idea?

    I will raise you on that Mark.

    Here is a Paragraph from my most recent Journal,

    PERMACULTURE is TOTAL SYSTEM DESIGN

    Sun, Earth, Water and Atmosphere are not seperate. They are a total force that may be logically entwined by design to utilize abundant natural available energy to its maximum potency. Yields increase, energy is conserved, and the environment is restored to its natural function.

    www.janahn.com.au
     
  11. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

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    Re: What's the Australian permaculture idea?

    I do not think that a Permaculture system can ever return the profits required by stockholders in transnational companies or any thing at all like them. It is inherent in the ethic that exploitation as seen in large profitmaking ventures can not be achieved. Many of the "profits" from a Permaculture System come through social capital and sustainable outcomes and if that is naif garden then IMHO thats where we need to live.
     
  12. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: What's the Australian permaculture idea?

    I see your point PP however PC may be applied on any scale.

    Really big applications may be "recycling of bio-waste from Milan or Rome" for instance and using it for biogas and fertilizer.

    www.janahn.com.au
     
  13. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

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    Re: What's the Australian permaculture idea?

    I certainly do not have issue with scale jahan it is profitability that I was picking up on in the request. We really do and can make a difference on a huge scale and really quickly with the right financing for infrastructure however the chance of that sort of funding coming from a private enterprise seems remote as the returns on the money would not necessarily be as rapid as investors would demand.
    And certainly do not think we should not try either.
     
  14. FedericoItaly

    FedericoItaly Junior Member

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    Re: What's the Australian permaculture idea?

    thanks for all for the answers, i've "store" a lot of cues, you have clarified many things.

    thanks again! ;)
     

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