What Will We Eat as the Oil Runs Out?

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by 9anda1f, Jul 28, 2013.

  1. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    David Holmgren speaks at the FEASTA Conference, 2005 in Dublin. Good stuff!

    https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/vide...d-production-during-energy-descent/2013/07/28
     
  2. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day bill,

    molleson said much the same first i think, but nothing happened then and nothing is going to happen now with holgrem's presentation of a dream, only us few who are aware of permaculture know of it, like i suggested to mark in the other thread, where is the action? where is land being bought up in cramped suburbs so food can be grown for those citizen's? why are not all now developments including space to grow enough seasonal food for those people? it's as yet not happening. we heard molleson talk of this at a permaculture exhibition in around 1990. there has been no impact of change, house blocks are reducing to 360sq/mts, only room for a pansy bed in the front yard, the covenant won't allow for a front fence or a landscape that does not fit those around you.

    around here everyone is on at least 1 acre, surprisingly not much vege' gardening going on lots and lots of landscape exotic gardens but, lots of mowing up a dust storm trying to grow bowling green lawns.

    and in england(no doubt ireland as well), they are said to import 40% of their food, but on tv i see all these castles and palaces with huge acres of well kept lawns and geometrically designed gardens, have seen this for decades now. why aren't these spaces being used to grow local food? over here we will have those posh noses living in huge mansions with well kept lawns and exotic gardens, when people near by either need affordable food or soon will.

    they are going to crash us if what is being said is true, or peak oil and CO2 are true furphies. look at it apart from dreams there is nothing already in play. people are comfy in the fact of that world seed bank for when GMO promoters get it wrong, hey go figure it takes the average seed 2 weeks to germinate then how long to produce? beans about a month, cauliflowers about 140 days. cut the broadacre grain farms now, replant that habitat before solar and wind farms spread like weeds, if it crashes which the fear hypers say it will then it will be all too late hey, the cities will not be nice places to live in, empty shops and hungry people.

    common we can do it

    len
     
  3. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    Over population and peak water will probably kick in harder and quicker,Climate Change is a long term problem,peak oil is already here,we are seeing its effects on food prices and riots in the Middle East and the GFC.
    Countries like Egypt who used to have oil to sell and create revenue, subsidised fuel and food with the profits, they now no longer have oil to sell and the people arent happy.
    This will happen in more and more countries.
     
  4. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    grasshopper?

    outside of genocide how can you ever control population growth? each person born is probably going to live 50++++ years and have kids of their own, the strife in eh almost total mid east creates population movement. i think we have to move away from the population factor, and work on feeding the people locally even going back to hybrid grains more suited to the human gut, but very climate specific so unless you live where they can grow it then write it out, our farmers must live with us and grow in climate in season staples.

    no gov' could ever do it in our divided societies.

    len
     
  5. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    In regions where people have an opportunity to access universal, free and secular education, birth rates fall, dramatically.
     
  6. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    There is an interesting statistic floating around out there (possible W.H.O?) that suggests many many (as much as 70% in some African countries) pregnancies are unplanned. If we could deal with that first it would be a great step forwards.

    I know this isn't a thread about overpopulation, but I also agree that it is the number 1 bang-for-your-buck way to deal with many of the global problems we have. It may also be the first thing to cause serious collapse. Solutions don't need to involve mass killings or genocide, it just needs to address the new births. Gradual responses are most likely to work best.
     
  7. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Principle 9: Use Small and Slow Solutions ;)
     
  8. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Education really does a wonderful job at reducing birth rates. I guess that's one of the reasons that Germany has a decreasing population. I recently heard someone talk about America hitting a population problem, but I think he was worried about the pyramid scheme we call retirement funds(making more children so people can retire comfortably is just wrong). I wish I could live long enough to see most of this play out because it's really all very interesting.

    I still personally think that it's going to be a steady decline in energy and not some catastrophic a quick failure of society as a whole that plunges us in to a new dark age. Having said that, the stock markets do have me worried, more worried than running out of oil and natural gas.
     
  9. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    See Ecodharmaamark post
    But its a catch 22 without population control you will also have gencide
    Impossible to avoid the population bomb,more food means more people, without education, and if you just ignore it, it will come to you when its starving and eat your food and cause chaos where you live.
    climates are changing and most farmers need cheap oil
    No governments will exist if people start rioting from high food prices because their governments thought peak oil and CO2 werent a problem and did nothing to transition.
     
  10. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    Stock markets require constant growth , constant growth requires cheap oil
     
  11. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    Well unfortunately, population will reduce when there is not enough food and clean water to go around. You provide food and water and people will breed, just like animals do in nature.

    No food or clean water and the population reduces. There are countless episodes in history to point to. Potato famine, Easter Island etc.
     
  12. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    We seem to have hi-jacked this thread for our own purposes :)

    Examples in nature it suggest that when a population reaches the levels where it no longer has the resources to 'feed' it then the inevitable decline is often a catastrophic decline, not a marginal nor slow one.
     
  13. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    Ah yes true Grahame. If the world started doing permaculture all over the place, I'm sure the decline may be slower and reach an even level. I wish anyway. I often think that instead of the UN providing food for those in Africa, money would be better spent introducing permaculture and a self sustaining lifestyle. I think artificial food sources in the form of aid is going to become less and less sustainable if what they say about climate change materialises and food growing is put under more pressure because of unpredictable weather and either wetter or drier conditions depending on where you are in the world.Unfortunately for a lot of Africa, big agro have forced people off their lands and the little left for them has been over used and turned into dustbowls.

    When the oil runs out, if there are not community food set ups, or you have your own huge production of food, we will be eating whatever we can get our hands on. However, there won't be any horrible herbicides or pesticides.
     
  14. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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  15. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Could be EcoDM!

    Although some less finicky folks may just go straight for the 'long pig'. :(
     
  16. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Eww, Grahame! Gross, as the kids would say. However, I reckon it's possible, at least in the short term. What about Peter's microbes? He's got gazillions of 'em. I must see if I can find that movie...
     
  17. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Does it?

    Why can't it require something else?
     
  18. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    if not cheap abundant oil, then what else?

    there is nothing available in the quantities needed to run cars, transport and move F&V across the country to stupid market shelves, so what is the answer?

    about time the theory hype speculation ceased and we as a society got real.

    common for humanity stand and be counted, let's cut the drivel, instead cut to the chase, stand and be counted.

    len
     
  19. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    https://bze.org.au/zero-carbon-australia-2020/transport-plan
     
  20. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    ok? agreed as they and others indicate we must change, but we need this plan to be operating here and now, plans and ideas are not the order of the day mark,

    it's like all their theories nothing up and running.

    len
     

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