What type of tank?

Discussion in 'Designing, building, making and powering your life' started by Tulipwood, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    Re: What type of tank?

    they have pumps with electronic constant pressure devices doing away with the bladder, for our experience bad move stick with the bladder, ok you need to check the air pressure from time to time and yes bladders can go bad on you and they are expensive to replace DIY. but if you protect the pump from the sun then the bladder should be very reliable and like i said for us more efficient, as the pump may not need to come on at all for say a glass of water where as the eletronic one just needs a change of ambient temp' to alter the water density and on they come for a bit.

    we bought our pump as part of the deal the one they suggested was a 4 tap pump, it does the job well apart from that electronic device.

    we generally put the pump as close to the tank as possible, better to have a sparky fit a point near by. would suggest try to have at least 100sq/mts of roof as catchment for say each 25k/l tank. if you go for multiple tanks also remember water finds its own level so all tanks can be on the same plateau. the higher up you put your outlet then the more water that is held in the tank eg.,. if you had bundy tanks fit the screen right in the top in the middle then the outlet could be fitted just below that level and that then holds a lot more water. with multile tanks feeding one to the other it is only the final outlet that needs to be the highest.

    still reckon fitting a tap that is just above bucket height for gravity feed to save pump use or incase of power failure or pump failure or both, not so keen on direct fitting the tp to the tank that then becomes another hole in the tank hey? maybe run a pipe from the main feed to the pump? if the pump has 1" in feed then you need a 1" brass flow valve on the tank and use 1" pipe to connect pump to tank, that's our experience. if fire is a possibility or worry then all fittings and pipes will need to be brass at least with no nylon bits inside maybe dunno? on the out side of the pump we run 3/4" brass to the a purpose tap then connect to the 1/2" house pipes.

    will ead the link yet.

    len
     
  2. scottjunner

    scottjunner Junior Member

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    Re: What type of tank?

    I'm a big fan of what https://www.atlantiscorp.com.au/ are doing. Underground water storage, verticle and roof gardens (sod roofs).

    Len, I understand what you are saying about the fly-ash. We looked into the radioactlvity of fly-ash sources in Australia and the rest of the world while investigating a type of building block for inclusion under a building industry ecolabeling company. It seems that different sources from differnt mines/power stations have differnt levels of gamma radiation. Some are bordering on "not too pretty" while others emit the kind of levels you would expect from walking on the earth (it's all radio active).

    From what I have seen of most underground water storage systems they are the way to go. I would steer away from concrete though. The ability to build your house or park your car over it is a good use of space and building costs also (structural strength is what you need there).

    Scotty
     
  3. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    Re: What type of tank?

    g'day scotty,

    are their systems suitable for collection of rainwater for drinking purposes??

    len
     
  4. ppp

    ppp Junior Member

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    Re: What type of tank?

    scott why would you steer away from concrete? Reinforced concrete is stronger than plastic any day!?
     
  5. Julian

    Julian Junior Member

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    Re: What type of tank?

    Len, I'd be very very cautious about putting poly tanks underground - structurally they are not designed to cope with the huge forces coming from outside them and you risk at worst the tank being damaged and your water escaping (and if close to your house damage of foundations) or at worst total failure and catastrophic collapse.

    Given the manufacturers of concrete tanks also mandate that the tanks have at least some water in them once theyve been installed to prevent them 'floating' and lifting out of the ground, a lightweight poly tank would be more like trying to hold a balloon under water.

    and scott - many large concrete tanks are designed to withstand vehicle loads over them... personally I'd never put a house over it - one day it will fail - best make it only a matter of digging up some pavers & dirt rather than the whole foundations!
     
  6. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    Re: What type of tank?

    nope not this little black duck didn't say that, they do make poly water tanks to go underground as they advertise not sure if they are constructed differently or not?

    reckon they'll all float if empty and water gets underneath them. that's why all decomissioned petrol stations have to have the tanks removed.

    len
     
  7. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

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    Re: What type of tank?

    The underground PVC water tanks have heaps of extra ribbing for strength and thicker walls - making them more expensive - they are generally smaller in size too.
    Out of interest the under ground petrol tanks - most of them leak to some degree so it is also cheaper to take them out when no longer needed quickly so there is not as much decontamination/soil rehab work to do - disposing of soil with high levels of hydrocarbons is very $$$$.
     
  8. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

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    Re: What type of tank?

    greetings,

    I'm a poly tank guy.
    I have a fibreglass one - but I don't reckon it would take a branch landing on it - poly ,no worries.

    I want an aquaplate tank ...because I'm nostalgic,,,the old steel tank.
    I want a concrete tank with no roof - I want it to double as a pool and it needs to take a 'bomby' with thick concrete walls you can stand on.

    If I was going to drink the water - a liner would be required - stories of concrete leaching cyanide,,,probably bullshit but I don't know.

    regards, Kimbo
     
  9. DirtyDave

    DirtyDave Junior Member

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    Re: What type of tank?

    For: Poly tanks are made from supposedly Virgin Plastic depending on its country of origin, Aussie would be a very smart buy,
    They are very robust and can be relocated easily, good if your a farmer,.
    Against Poly Tanks, the water does take on the flavour of the poly, and if the poly is a light transparent colour it will assist in the cultivation of bacteria within the tank, as for fire they melt to the water line in a fire,

    For Galv/Zincalume/colorbond tanks,( No liner) They are robust fire resistant and will give the best tasting water, if your happy with the seepage of lead/ zinc /aluminium/ they say this is good for us??and silicone if the incorrect type has been used.
    A Galvanized unlined tank is the most environmental choice it has he least amount of embodied energy required to construct.

    A poly lined steal tank will resolve the lead/aluminium problem and the large bolt together styles are like this, back to taste again.

    Fibre glass tanks tend to fail the most and the polimers in fibre glass arn't that good for us either, plus these are the worst for absorbing external light and growing bacteria within them.

    All of the above tanks will blow away when empty, thats why the outlet is never at the absolute bottom, the keep some water within them

    Concrete tanks are very robust fire resistant will no blow away when empty, they contain more steal within them than steal sheet tanks of the same size. and have huge amounts of energy required to construct them.

    As for water quality, it depends on the amount of organic matter allowed to enter the tank ie bird shit, leaves etc.
    Filtering to about ten micron with a sediment or better a cyst gard filter will take out alot of the nasties, can now filter to less than .5 micron if you wish. very close to sterile water.

    Never use a Carbon filter on water that has no chlorination or ultra violet light treatment. these filters are designed to remove heavy metals and chemicals which are not present in rain water, they will become a growing medium for bacteria.














    i
     
  10. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    Re: What type of tank?

    been drinking out of poly tanks for a long time now, so going with what you said here we must have bought the best quality from bundy tanks hey? as never have we had a plastic taste in our water, our current tanks is an off white colour and there is fungi in the water or as far as we can determine as we aren't getting sick from it no more bacteria that what might be in any tank water.

    with zinc any transfer of zinc or lead if they still use it to seal them i heard it was a silastic product supposedly safe for drinking water, these of course may not alter the flavour of the water but could still be in it? and lined zinc tanks then have the poly paint issue, an unlined tank won't last long before it corrodes.

    and with cement tanks there is still the fly ash thingy as they use fly ash to produce cement powder used in all sorts of concreting/cementing projects. and the cement isn't glazed in anyway so i would expect some transfer of elements.

    one needs to decide the least of all evils.

    len
     
  11. scottjunner

    scottjunner Junior Member

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    Re: What type of tank?

    Concrete as an external structure can be very good for underground. No doubt. Depends on the size. I'm talking about any size, any volume, undrground storage. Massive scale is possible. But in order to do this you need an internal matrix structure. Sorry to not be more descriptive before ppp.

    We often think of water storage as being an empty container (except for the water) but by putting an internal stucture in there, huge masses can be upheld (weight on top).

    Please have a look at this. https://www.atlantiscorp.com.au/photogra ... harvesting

    Scotty
     
  12. scottjunner

    scottjunner Junior Member

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    Re: What type of tank?

    By the way. I don't work for them. I just understand what they do.

    Scotty
     
  13. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    Re: What type of tank?

    ok i see clearly now i hope that is, what they actually do is create a bladder tank underground, is that correct?

    you wouldn't want to get a tear hey? also reckon the water may not be drinking quality as that material might introduce some interesting flavours. for me the risk of the liner being damaged sometime later would make it too much of a risk, and like any underground tanks how do you discover a leak let alone what is going to be involved in fixing that leak, seems daunting to say the least. damage could occur if they leave a crease when building and over time this crease could fail, much like happens in the bladder of a water bed. probably other possibilities like the hard plastic might have a sharp edge that could cut through the liner? all things to consider ins such a sizeable investment as the integrity of those who do the work for you can never be trusted, like pool builders and those who do patios and carports, we just went through all of this i would not recommend any of them to anyone.

    i've seen cement tanks constructed on site underground a lot of work involved over a period of time, but if that is the only way you have to go then? still they do use fly ash to make cement powder, still can't see that they make seperate grade of cement dust for water tanks, that would make the product more expensive, and cement tanks with all their work are not realy that much dearer than poly tanks are they?

    len
     
  14. Julian

    Julian Junior Member

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    Re: What type of tank?

    there are poly tanks designed to go below ground and specifically designed to withstand being buried - the ones ive seen are doughnut shaped with thick structural ribs. they also are expected to have some concrete poured on top of them before being covered over.


    i was under the impression by your first quote that any poly tank can go underground, my mistake if i read you incorrectly.
     
  15. ppp

    ppp Junior Member

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    Re: What type of tank?

    are you sure that silica fume is in all cement?

    Shotcrete is concrete which is sprayed on, it's used in tunnels and mines. Often silica fume is specified (it helps the concrete "stick" and makes it more durable). A percentage is always specified which is added to the portland cement. That said, alot of concrete used for tanks could have silica fume specifically added.. since it is so fine, it makes the concrete stronger but also far less permeable (less likely to leak)..

    I am 99% certain that it is common to get plain portland cement, you could ask a tank building contractor to use it, though they may take some convincing since they probably usually use it, they may be less keen to gaurentee no leakage and no cracking without the silica fume... I could be wrong on this last point.
     
  16. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: What type of tank?

    Bladder tanks generally go under decks thus saving backyard growing space.
    has anyone any experience of them?

    There are also flat-box-rectangular-like Poly Tanks that can go under decks.
    Some come in modules that can be added to and linked together.
    They are about the same price as other 'shaped' tanks (The standard round seems the cheapest but it takes a bit of a suburban block these days.)

    I have baths on the high side of my block. I am a DIY clutz but I envisage a valve under the bath outlet to divert water to say a soaker or dripper hose. The tap for this might be inside or out. I doubt if I could crawl under the house at that point, to make it, even if i did know what i was doing.
    I guess it would be illegal for a pumber to install such a diverter?

    I read somewhere that there were Federal loans available for pensioners to install tanks. Anyone know about this?
     
  17. ppp

    ppp Junior Member

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    Re: What type of tank?

    my boss broke a total of two bladder tanks under his house when the bracket moved and punctured the bladder.. it saturated the whole underneath of his house.. sure you can't get something more substantial? Otherwise, maybe you're better off just buying a li-lo or a baby pool..?
     
  18. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    Re: What type of tank?

    yes ppp,

    bladders to me also are fraught with lots of problems, from our experineces with water bed bladders. seen bladders under house fitted with their own say cement or bessar block wall around them to protect them (still the issue of creases), also saw an extra large one i dunno 40 to 80k litre size with block wall built around it and its own roof to protect it from the sun. hardly worth the effort when poly's are just so easy to do.

    len
     
  19. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: What type of tank?

    Sounds like I will avoid bladders; thanks for the :finga: .

    I rather liked this definition on
    Macquarie Dictionaries Dictionary Wit site
    [​IMG]
     
  20. greenfarmers

    greenfarmers Junior Member

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    Re: What type of tank?

    Hello ...

    Our two bobs worth!

    We went with two big gal tanks as the main storage, with a smaller stainless steel one for drinking water. The aquaplate lining in the gal tanks is still"plastic" and so remains questionable for drinking. There is even now a question over the polycarbonate drinking bottles, which are often regarded as "safe". Apparently not if they have the recycle number 7 on the base.

    With regards to our larger tanks, we are required by council to use the metal ones, under their bushfire code, so it might be worth checking if you are in a fire area.

    Heidi
     

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