What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Michaelangelica, Nov 28, 2009.

  1. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    G'day again, Alex

    Just on the off-chance that you may like to have a look at the work of Diesendorf and Pittock, I have provided the following for your conveinience:

    Climate Action: A campaign manual for greenhouse solutions by Mark Diesendorf, UNSW Press, 2009
    https://www.unswpress.com.au/isbn/9781742230184.htm
    In particular, pp. 31-61: Fallacies about greenhouse science and solutions

    Greenhouse Solutions with Sustainable Energy by Mark Diesendorf, UNSW Press, 2007
    https://www.unswpress.com.au/isbn/0868409731.htm
    In particular, pp. 21-27: Sceptics or 'contrarians'

    Climate Change: The science, impacts and solutions by Barrie Pittock, CSIRO, 2009
    https://www.publish.csiro.au/pid/6010.htm
    In particular, pp. 3-4, 63, 60-70, 126, 144, 240, 242, 264: Scepticism/sceptics

    Also, for contemporary 'real climate science, by climate scientists', you may want to check out the following:
    Real Climate: https://www.realclimate.org/

    And finally, for the most up to date, professional insights on 'the science debate', you can't go past the following:
    Stephen Schneider: https://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/

    Cheerio, and peace, Marko.
     
  2. any1home92

    any1home92 New Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    Ironically Tony Abott, the supposed "anti ETS candidate", could be the leader of a party that he himself admits has no credibility. The Liberal party's factions and obvious fragmentation has now caused them to panic. The media strain which Turnbull is no doubt feeling has forced him to continue with a view which many in his own party do not agree on. If he had any brains, he would abandon the pride and settle for making his party "appear" to be united...instead they have armed the Labor party with ammo that they will no doubt unleash in the next election. For Mr.Abbott to say that a free vote is not credible is merely him cementing his position as yet another ignorant Liberal....he joins a very large list.

    The Liberal party find themselves in a position whereby they are 18 out from the rail and are boxed in without any hope of coming near Rudd in the next election. Luckily for K.Rudd and Labor, the focus of the media has not been on a somewhat futile policy but on the squabbling of the Opposition. With Hockey and Abbott in the wings, ready to take control of the reigns, Turnbull's fate is sealed however the Liberals need to hurry up and choose someone who will be able to represent the party as a whole and not just a faction.
     
  3. magnoliabloomberg

    magnoliabloomberg Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    It's all such dreadful theatre. Tragedy/comedy.
     
  4. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    Thankyou for your thoughtful, considered and reasoned opinion janahn.
    Now how about some arguments to back up you assertion that most of the Western World's Governments are "off your little rockers"
     
  5. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    Agreed Mark, and Ditto for me. However, my precautionary principle tells me not to do or support anything that will strengthen the corporate state, especially its ultimate incarnation, the Global New World Order. They're cunning bastards, and even resistance empowers them. Best to direct one's energies away from them, especially when they claim to offer solutions to problems they created in the first place.

    I'll follow up on the links you provided, and possibly expand my library a little, but I'll continue to abhor the ad hominem and straw man arguments that are too frequently used against sceptics. Scepticism is essential to rational enquiry, and a powerful antidote to blind, uncritical faith.

    As I've stated elswhere, I don't want to get caught up in the AGW debate. I'd rather direct my energy to something rewarding and productive. I have a garden to plant, and books to read, so I'll get on with it.
     
  6. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    The liberal party wanted Costello as their leader. They have got Abbot, a right-wing, Catholic, ex-trainee priest.
    I doubt he will be as funny without the other half.

    I guess he don't see the Bible's Genesis as "just a theory"
     
  7. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    Yes, I freely admit that the prospect of yet another global authority gaining power early this century is a cause for concern. I have never given my support to increase the authority of anyone, so I am not about to start now. You will not get an argument out of me on this issue.

    One thing though, that I can not help but suspect, is that you are bundling your abhorrence for authoritarianism with that of science. As such, in the context of this situation I feel that you are drawing a long bow by suggesting that science (in particular, the scientists I have referred to) cannot maintain separation from the State - be that of the National, or the Global variety. The question then remains: Are you suggesting that human-induced climate change does not exist, or that science has been bought, or are you just sitting on the fence?

    I have no problem with a sceptical mind - we must continue to ask questions, of everyone, and everything. But when the rational turns irrational, as is the case with 95% of the human-induced climate change fraternity, then I believe that we have a problem of the pendulum swinging too far the other way. I believe that we are right now experiencing human-induced climate change effects. I base this belief on rational, critical enquiry - it's what I do, it's my life. If, for whatever reason the science (and therefore, the scientists - who must surely number in the hundreds) I have come to rely on alters in its (their) statement towards human-induced climate change, then I will reassess my belief structure accordingly. I once believed in Santa Clause (I think, although I was always very sceptical), but that belief did not last for very long. Same situation in Sunday School - I was 'expelled' at the tender age of 41/2 because (from memory) I questioned the authenticity of the particular religion my parents were experimenting with at the time. So yeah, I have no problem with changing my mind, just show me the evidence - and I think about it :mrgreen: .

    I can very much relate to the latter, very much. I put in 4-hours today (I work WWOOFer hours) carting mulch in the beautiful sunshine. I usually read from 7 to 9 in the morning, and again at night from 12-ish to about 2. Of late (in between sitting exams and collating research leads for my embryonic thesis) I have spent about 2-hours a day on this thing, banging out my thoughts and beliefs, occasionally throwing a few G'days to the newcomers, jotting down a few experiences in response to those with inquiries, and sparing with a few of the 'regulars'. Normally I give those sceptical of my own world views/belief structure a few opportunities to convince me otherwise, and then yeah, if they have not come up with the goods by then, it's 'bye bye'. But Alex, I like your scepticism (if that is what it is?), mostly because it is couched in a rational and polite manner. If more people argued like you, the world would be a much happier place.

    Cheerio, Marko.

    PS: Michael, I am really sorry for hijacking your thread - its just that party politics is a joke, and a very boring one at that.
     
  8. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    You are wrong there. We are the first organism the planet has produced that can consciously change the weather.
    The are many simple ways to do this. My favorite is the biochar/ Terra preta option.
    Certainly the 'planting trees' solution is equivalent to putting your finger in the hole in the dyke. A motherhood option.
    I would prefer to go down fighting 'with a bang not a whimper'.
    If we do have a major 'tipping/point/event adaptation will not be an option.
     
  9. Dalzieldrin

    Dalzieldrin Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    so, this kind of free speech, this kind of free expression is permissible??
     
  10. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    Sadly, old boy, I don't share your good fortune, time wise. I'm working very long hours a long way from my home, and can't afford to forgo too many evening meals while trying to bash out my thoughts in some coherent manner. But since you're willing to engage in polite dialogue, I promise you I'll do my best to explain my position to you in a longer posting in a few days' time. You will probably still disagree with me, and may even think I'm crazy, but hopefully you'll have a clear picture of what I'm trying to say.

    Michael, don't confuse "weather'' with "climate". I'll try to cover that in the post, as well. My friends reckon I have asperger's syndrome, too.

    A reasonable suspicion which I hope will be made clear later. But don't forget the huge science budget of the Military Industrial Complex, as well as Bill Mollison's assertion that soil degradation in Australia has increased in proportion to the number of soil scientists graduated from university. Also consider Peter Andrews' story. "His methods are so at odds with conventional scientific wisdom, that for 30 years he has been dismissed and ridiculed as a madman." https://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2005/s1383562.htm I argue that scientific authority is to be regarded with the same scepticism as political and economic authority. Also, do you remember Ptolemy? He's important here, too. When I here scientific True Believers labelling sceptics as "heritics" I hear very loud alarm bells.

    It's late, past my bedtime. More in a few days.
     
  11. paradisi

    paradisi Junior Member

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    the liberal party is becoming the far right wing religious nutters party

    their leader is an abbot, number two is a bishop, more importantly the abbot has declared global warming may not really be happenning

    and then there's his push fro all children to be indoctrinated into the christian faith - compulsory bible reading at school

    they are a joke, but unfortuinately about 50% of australians think the joke is funny and worth voting for
     
  12. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

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    Re; what are the liberal party doing?

    what are the liberal party doing ?...... same old, same old (being wankers)

    But AlexM is on the money,,,,Cap and Trade is just some neo liberal wank ( i checked out that little cartoon vid on the PRI main page...before that,,,,i thought (wrongly) it was a good idea.
    Now I see it as giving the problem to the same pricks that created it, financiers, marketers, profiteers and pricks....

    this is a good thread,,,keep it up team and you'll get even more famous (infamous,,,notorious)....and Paradisi's there, fully commited; ecodharmamark, the diplomatic voice of reason with posts that would get A's at uni, and AlexM; heels dug in, standing his ground......

    the content you players generate has googlebot flat out, and admin must love you,
    regards,
    Kimbo
     
  13. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    How would you categorise your post kimbo?
     

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