What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Michaelangelica, Nov 28, 2009.

  1. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    They have voted twice for an ETS
    Malcolm Turnbull has had no requests for him to stand down
    His leadership was ratified by a large majority( 48? -38?) on Wednesday.

    Is this just a naked grab for power?

    Do the Libs. just believe that they are the ones that are The Ruling Party and Destined to be so
    Can they not cope with opposition?

    Do some feel they can run a GST type scare campaign against the ETS at an election and win?

    Are the Libs. that ignorant of Scientific Method to be full of half baked Climate Change Denialists?

    The Rudd ETS scheme, Turnbull said, is not that much different from the Howard Government's proposal.

    Has the back bench been hijacked by Corporate Self Interest?

    I gained new respect for Malcolm Turnbill this week, who seems to be one of the few acting honorably in this schmozzle/fiasco.

    https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/minchin-p ... -jx69.html
     
  2. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    We'll have to wait until monday i think... some are predicting a spill. It wasn't that long ago we had birds attacking each other (Hawk & Peacock).

    Its a pitty Peter Costello resigned. If Abbott gets up on Monday we coud have an ''Abbott and Costello'' Leader/Deputy.

    Of course, if we had a ''Green Liberals" party none of this ETS would be an issue (In Australia at least).

    What Australia is missing is a Political Party that believes Business can thrive within a Green friendly Environment, which it certainly CAN (Sorry Mark).
     
  3. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    Turnbull wins a prize. Not a wankly, but close...roughly simular to a modern noble prize.....

    "..Malcolm Turnbull, leader of The Australian Opposition has been announced as the outstanding winner of the coveted Order of the Banker.

    Victor Mosely, the chairman of the Bankers Awards committee, announced the win this evening, in anticipation of the passing of the Australian Emissions Trading Scheme. “This man has done more than anyone to improve future banking profits world wide”. When pointed out that it was merely an Australian scheme, Mosely replied, that “in the fraught lead up to Copenhagen he has done what no one else could, he’s given us hope.”

    Carbon trading in 2008 was a $126 billion market. The CFTC in the United States was forecasting a trillion dollar market by 2012. More than ever, banks need help with their balance sheets, and nothing else will expand the power of financial houses as fast as carbon trading will

    While Kevin Rudd was an obvious choice for the award this year, Mosely declared that Turnbull had pulled the much needed legislation from certain death despite all odds. “What Turnbull did was extraordinary. Opinion polls are falling worldwide, a deal at Copenhagen is extremely unlikely, Australian emissions will make no measureable impact on the world or the weather, then this week, climate science was exposed as being based on fraudulent work....." continues...

    More via - https://joannenova.com.au/2009/11/turnbu ... -for-2009/
    note satire.
     
  4. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    Flying Binghi
    Still beating the denialist drum?
    No one is listening.
    When greenies like Howard, Thatcher and Murdock says you need to 'give the planet the benefit of the doubt' you know we are in trouble.
     
  5. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    if any one thinks that a carbon trading scheme is the best method to reduce carbon pollution, then you are, in my opinion, and i admit i am no expert, "off your little rockers"

    www.janahn.com.au
     
  6. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    Of course its not the best option... but its the best option given the mindset of the majority of voters.
     
  7. magnoliabloomberg

    magnoliabloomberg Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    An ETS just seems like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic for me. I have no idea why that is even on the table and breath is being wasted on it and would never support it in any form as it is too open to abuse by corporate interests as a fig leaf to cover their gross and ongoing abuses. Tribes in the Amazon are now being dislocated due to GE using the forests there as a carbon offset for their gas guzzlers. https://www.motherjones.com/environment/ ... oney-trees I am all for reducing emissions and wonder why (no, I don't really but...just putting it out there)there are not more policy and laws to use the technology available and further develop technology for a zero emission future for all. Turnbull is looking at this as a banker not an environmentalist. Which is not to say I support the fruit loops that seems to be the 'other' force in the Liberal Party who seem to be in some state of denial. It is just an example of divisions in the ruling class.
     
  8. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    I believe that politics and politicians are reflective of us as a nation - they are reflections of us. In that way they are representative of us rather than representatives for us. And I think that the reason they often appear to act wildly differently to how we want them to belies the fact that many of us behave differently to the way we wish others would behave. We thing one way and behave a different way. For example, when I was at uni I thought of myself as a greeny, but really I still went out, got pissed, drove a car, shopped at the Supermarket, ate McDonalds etc... Politics really revolves around the way we behave, not the way we think, or the way we would like to behave.

    I see the universe as one great mirror, what do you see when you look into the mirror of politics?

    That's my 2 cents
     
  9. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    One political party puts the cart before the horse (Labor).

    The Other puts the horse before the cart (Liberal).

    Yet another is concerned about the health of the horse regardless of the postion of the cart (Greens).

    No political party has yet given any consideration to whats actually in the cart to begin with... could be the answer they have all been looking for.

    ... thats what i see in the political mirror.
     
  10. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    Michaelangelica, you musta missed a recent interview where Murdock called the Australian Prime Minister delusional... :p

    An interesting comment via WUWT -

    I reserve the word “deniers” for people that explicitly reject the history of Jewish extermination in wartime Germany.
    When I see anyone legitimize the term “denier” in the context of this debate, an alarm bell goes off – “this is not a serious person”.

    To do so is to commit an unforgivable devaluation of the historical relevance of the word “denier. It’s a rhetorical tactic unworthy of anyone who wants their scientific credibility to remain above reproach.

    When the word “denier” first crawled out of the political slime, I fully expected those in science and media alike to reject it, vocally and without qualification.

    Instead, it has become mainstream.

    Small wonder that a great percentage of ordinary observers such as I begin to question that we haven’t been fed one big, fat lie after all. For the people propagating it have seemingly lost all sense of historical proportion
     
  11. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    https://seekingalpha.com/article/175575- ... urce=email
    At the risk of being off topic

    Does it matter why the Earth is warming?
    The results will be the same
    If we can ameliorate the predicted effects, lets do so.

    Define denailism as you think fit.
    If the cap fits wear it.
    Taking an extreme position or accusing others of it is a tired old debater's trick.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denialism
    Murdock has not been known for his praise of left wing politicians. Read any page of the very R W biased, boringly-turgid The Australian rag.
    When he called Rudd "delusional" he was talking of his China policies.
    https://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0 ... public_rss
     
  12. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    I have lost a lot of respect for a number "scientists" who abandoned their professional scepticism in favour of system of faith that is no more scientific than creationism, but I can understand the pressure they were under to conform to the orthodoxy. I do expect many of them to reconsider their position now that the wheels are beginning to fall off the AGW wagon.

    Fortunately, not all scientists have lost their wits. David Bellamy is one of many who saw through the whole thing from the start and refused to buy into it or toe the line:

    The thing that annoys me most is that there are genuine environmental problems that desperately require attention. I'm still an environmentalist, I'm still a Green and I'm still campaigning to stop the destruction of the biodiversity of the world. But money will be wasted on trying to solve this global warming "problem" that I would much rather was used for looking after the people of the world.

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/th ... 1118127677

    What's the Liberal party doing? Well, some of them are trying to suck up to the AGW orthodoxy and give Kevin 07's international career hopes a boost, while others are trying to stop us making a very expensive mistake. I still won't vote for them, though.
     
  13. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    G'day Alex

    Have you ever heard of George Monbiot?

    Bellamy - George Monbiot's "Ace of Spades"

    Because he was once an environmentalist and a famous broadcaster, David Bellamy is used as the mascot of climate change deniers all over the world. Like most mascots he is cute, furry and apparently incapable of rational thought...

    Source: https://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/g ... ers-top-10

    Oh, and Michael, I think they are doing what they (and every other neo-liberal, 'western democratic' party/politician) do so well - provide diversions from the real issues of life.

    Anyway, who is Nicole dating this week, and was Tiger pissed?

    Seriously folks, the world has been going to shit for years, and this is all we have to worry about?

    On a more important note:

    Shear science: project curbs burping sheep

    Australian scientists are trying to lower the carbon footprint of the nation's livestock by selectively breeding sheep that emit less gas through burping...

    For the full story: https://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... ?site=news

    Well, that's my one and only attempt at humour for the year :mrgreen:

    Cheerio, Marko.
     
  14. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    O well, what topic
    Interestingly this is not a joke.
    40% of N.Zland's GHG emissions come from burping sheep and cattle.
    Kangaroos have a bacteria in their gut that prevents this.
    Scientists are hoping this may be able to be transferred to sheep and cattle.
    In the meantime kangaroo is the "greenest" (!) meat.
     
  15. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    That part of my post was no joke, Michael. I was trying to be funny by linking news about the Liberal party, with Nicole (Kidman's) new boyfriend, and Tiger's quick exit from his McMansion - all front page news today, and on the bottom of the 'no dig' garden tomorrow.

    I am not very good at humour, does it show?

    Yes, methane (livestock burps and farts) is an extremely serious GHG. Which brings me to another off-topic rant:

    All those bloody camels running amok in the 'Central and Western Homelands' (see, for example: https://blogs.abc.net.au/wa/2009/11/came ... ansom.html), and all we can do is shoot them and let them decompose where they drop?

    Camel meat (sorry to our vegetarian friends) is delicious. The milk is awesome, and the cheese is to die for. They eat anything (within reason), and therefore make great 'tractors'. Water conservative, AND they have soft feet! Only drawback is they are strong buggers, and fencing is a major issue. But to shoot them and waste all that life-force and end product is beyond me.

    Cull the cows and the sheep, I reckon. And give the camels a chance. I wonder what the methane farting/burping ratio is between camel:sheep:cow?

    Cheerio, Marko.
     
  16. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    Sorry, I am asperger's or idiot savant and just don't ever see anything to do with "celebrities," ever.
    So your cleverness made a wooshing sound as it went over my head:)
    M
     
  17. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    Lots more comment on the electric type 'wires'
    https://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=9766
    and
    https://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=9755
    and
    https://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=9761
     
  18. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    Michael, I can see you are an intelligent person, and that you are trying to understand the issue and the argument rationally. Clearly, you are not swayed from your enquiries by cheap ahnominem arguments, as many of the True Believers are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem Fortunately, as the cracks in the psuedo-science of Anthropegenic Global Warming begin to widen, these arguments lose their power, and people start to re-examine the science and uncover the fraud.

    The shortest answer I can give you to your question is that the forces that cause the earth's climate to change are far more powerful than us. Attempts to ameliorate the "predicted " effects are like burnt offering to false gods, or trying to stop death by banning funerals. It will have no effect. We can only do what humans have always done; use our imeasurable creative potential to adapt. I am convinced that the science of Permaculture is the key here.

    Ofcourse I have, and I still have a lot of respect for his anti-globilisation activism. I'm also not terribly surprised that he has been so thoroughly seduced by his own fame. Unfortunately, his over active ego has made him a servant of the globalisers. It is clear to me, and many others, that Anthropogenic Global Warming is a crafty construction that is being used by the New World Order to harness the energy of its greatest resisters. It should be obvious that the sham Cap and Trade, Free Market "solution" is no solution at all; it will only enrich the polluters and the owners of the trading houses. They are laughing at you, Marko. They know that CO2 is a complete furphy. They know that a global treaty will give them even more power over sovereign nations and their citizens. They know that this scam will destabilise industrial economies, while doing nothing for the poor.

    And worst of all, Marko, they know, as you should too, that all of the money and energy that is being wasted on this collosal hoax will do nothing to alleviate real human-induced environmental catstrophies like soil degradation and dehydration, water pollution, loss of biodiversity and heavy metal contamination, and many more, which is precisely Bellamy's point. They will use this farce to justify the accelereated roll out genetically modified crops, concentrating power in the hands of the evil Monsanto Corp. And the sheep, for god's sake! Who will own the low-emission sheep gene!? And do you think you'll be able to afford a licence for those old-fashioned high-emission heritage breeds? They will create a global enforcement agency - a new inquisition - that will shut down free speech and free choice. True Believers have already shown their gleeful and ignorant support, though their slavish embrace of the derisive term "denialist."

    I know you are a smart man, Marko, and I know that smarter people than you have been taken in by this. I continue to hope that reason will untimately prevail, and when humanity awakes from this nightmare of Original Sin reconfigured for a new religion and a new high priesthood, we will be able to co-operate in building a better, sustainable world in any climate that nature throws at us. I am convinced that the rapid take up of Permaculture that we are seeing around the world is a sign that a better future is within our grasp, but if we give the New World Order the power that they seek through this massive confidence trick, future generations will judge us poorly, if they are able to obtain sufficient education to do anything more than compare brands at the supermarket.

    Returning, at last, to the thread topic: I only hope that the turmoil of the Liberal Party delays debate on the ETS scam until after the Copenhagen conference. Hopefully, recent revelations about the fraud of climate change psuedoscience will put a stop to the madness.
     
  19. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    G'day Alex

    Concerning human-induced climate change, I disagree. Scientists, such as Diesendorf and Pittock, these are people that I have chatted with soon after they have lectured. I have read all of their publications - I consider these people to be committed to the truth. I consider them to be true to their respective professions. They are much more intelligent than I could ever hope to be in matters of climate science, and the debunking of conspiracy theories. Therefore, I have made a rational decision to respect their integrity and believe in their work. If people, such as the likes of Diesendorf and Pittock were to change their beliefs, then I would reconsider my own beliefs. Of course, if you have evidence that you think may make me change my mind, then you are free to offer it. However, be warned. I live my life according to 'the precautionary principle', so if you have evidence, it will have to be revelatory in the highest order. People have been laughing at me all my life, so I am not concerned about that.

    There are many psycho-social theories why people deny the occurrence of human-induced climate change. Some of them seem very credible to me. Most of them touch very raw nerves. But I am no expert on the minds of others, and for this reason I have decided to not debate the science. You are free to believe what you want. I will not question your motives.

    Concerning neo-liberal, western capitalist 'solutions', I agree. Nowhere in any of the threads that I have previously posted in this forum will you find my support for any form of 'reducing' greenhouse gas emissions through 'free market economy' measures. I have said it before, and I will say it again - the solution lays with the implementation of innovative alternatives (the discussion of which I have laboured over for hours in previous posts to this forum), and not 'business as usual' social, political and economic paradigms.

    Nice chatting with you, Mark.
     
  20. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: What is The Aust.Liberal Party doing, do you think?

    Hey Michael

    With your aspergers, my dyslexia and chronic lack of humour, we could be the life of the party.

    Hey, perhaps we should form a political party? We could cal it Mick and Mark's Marvelous Party.

    What do they say: a week's a long time in politics? They should try being a radical...

    Markus.
     

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