What do you Aussies think about white tails?

Discussion in 'Breeding, Raising, Feeding and Caring for Animals' started by pebble, Mar 3, 2011.

  1. sun burn

    sun burn Junior Member

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    I did a first aid course a couple of years ago. I vaguely recall there was something about white tails. Now i am not certain and can probably check it sometime or you could online, but i think to treat a bite, it is different from other spider bites. You don't put a splint on, you use ice. Now don't go out and use that treatment without checking please...The correct answer is in my first aid book which is about 100m away from where i am now and its late at night so i don't feel like going out to get it.

    the thing about necrotising rings a bell with me. The thing is, i had never heard of white tail spiders before i did this first aid course so I think it all goes together and i haven't mixed it up with another spider. but then, i did a quick search and seems its no longer believed to be the case. see this link which is a good health site.

    https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/White_tailed_spider?open
     
  2. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    Yes, it's not venom, it's something else.


    Alcohol... open up that blood flow and spread the poison around ;-)
     
  3. Pink Angel

    Pink Angel Junior Member

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    I was biten by a white tail some years ago.
    It became infected and necrosis set in. I now have a scar and a depression in my leg where the spider bit. It took quite a few months to heal.
    The doctor did mention that he believed the white tails in Melbourne have a more venomous bite.....
     
  4. pippimac

    pippimac Junior Member

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    I was wondering if someone would chime in who's actually reacted to a spider bite: I was starting to think it was just an anti-whitetail urban legend.
    I will now squish more exuberantly than ever: eating zillions of other spiders was pushing it, but a creating a hideous ulcerated (...) gives me all the excuse I need.
     
  5. Speedy

    Speedy Junior Member

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    The spiders being non-venemous doesn't mean that some of them dont have nasty microbes on their bitey bits.
    The nercrosis thing has always sounded to me like a bacterial infection
    ...especially when some people have no reaction to the WTS bites and then
    others reporting being bitten by them and having no end of trouble with spreading necrotic lesions.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necrotizing_fasciitis

    here's the study on white tailed spider bites 1999-2002
    https://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/179_04_180803/isb10785_fm.html

    That study notwithstanging, they're still a creepy looking spider especially the way they move.
     
  6. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Location:
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    That's what the NZ authorities are saying too. Given that there is a very small but serious risk of serious bacterial infection, it would pay to treat any suspected spider bite as potentially infected. I'd be cleaning it and taking a strong immune and blood cleaning herb like echinacea.
     
  7. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Location:
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    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    Also from that report:

     
  8. macey

    macey Junior Member

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    thorn
    Just to be clear, what ever the cause of reported cases of necrotizing lesions with white tail bites (and it will most likely be bacterial) it should not be confused with necrotizing fasciitis. I worked for a very long time in an ICU that recieved tertiary referral cases of nec. fasc. post hyperbaric therapy and more times than not large scale amputations, the infection spreads rapidly under the skin travelling through and destroying the fascia and unless caught extremely early is often fatal, it is a very different and very much more dangerous beast! Just to freak us all out though...... I did see a case where a lady developed necrotising fasciitis after getting a Strep A. infection in her finger after pricking it on a rose!
     
  9. Speedy

    Speedy Junior Member

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    Maybe the publicity about 'white-tailed spider bites causing necrotic lesions' has lead to more misdiagnoses and prevented further searching for the real causal agent.
    People who've developed these lesions may have automatically assumed that they've been bitten by a WTS,
    even without actually seeing it.
    And seeing a WTS around the time of the problem starting may be enough for someone
    to be 'absolutely convinced' that the WTS was the cause.
    I'm still open to the possibility that they may be a cause,
    but the evidence just isnt strong enough.
    I'd be looking elsewhere for the cause of the necrosis.

    Here's a list of diferential diagnoses-
    Vascular ulcers: arterial or venous insufficiency
    Diabetic ulcer
    Neuropathic ulcer
    Microbial infection
    Foreign body
    Focal and general vasculitis
    Injection of toxin (accidental or deliberate)
    Drug reaction
    Physical/mechanical trauma (may be deliberate)
    Bed sores
    Burns (especially chemical burns)
    Contact dermatitis
    Pyoderma gangrenosum
    Neoplasm
    Connective tissue diseases
    q1-antitrypsin deficiency
    Other arthropod bites or stings

    https://www.avru.org/health/health_necrotis.html
     
  10. Speedy

    Speedy Junior Member

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    Yes, I proly shouldn't have put that in there :blush:

    'Necrotising Arachnidism' would be more correct and bad as it may be to have ,
    doesn't seem as nasty as necrotising fasciitis.
    either way, I wouldnt want any of it :shake:
     
  11. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Location:
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    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    I wonder if the increase in reports of white tail associated necrosis/ulcers in the past 20 years is due to bacterial evolution from antibiotic overuse i.e the bacteria are the thing we should be looking at rather than the spiders.
     
  12. aroideana

    aroideana Junior Member

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    Up here there is something called 'Daintree rot' and it very well could be that necrotising thing .
    Looks very bad , leaving massive holes in your flesh , I know a few people who have had it .
    A nurse at Mossman Hospital has been working on it for many years,
    and has developed a protocol for recognition and treatment.
     
  13. Stuk

    Stuk Junior Member

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    G'day pebble

    This is my fist post as I have only just come across this forum searching the keyword "white tailed spider" and joined to get involved in the thread and as an added bonus permaculture is also another one of my interests along with entomology.

    The easiest way to give my opinion on the white tailed spider would be to send you to a couple of my websites for information. https://www.waystogetridofspiders.com/ and https://www.brownreclusespiderbite.info/

    As for the katipo spider you have in NZ a lot of Kiwis are not aware that the Australian red back spider can also be found in NZ also, article here for more info https://www.waystogetridofspiders.com/dangerous-spiders/red-back-spider/

    Having said that personally I think they are pretty harmless although at one stage I did think that they were the cause of necrotizing arachnidism. Ok I am going to read the rest of the thread, regards to all and have a great 2012!
     

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