We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by kimbo.parker, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    I have a disability too which restricts in some ways what I can do physically. But it also enables me in other ways (have better survival skills than alot of undisabled people). I'm not a fan of concepts that presume that one has to be able only in certain ways to be doing it right.

    There are alot of people I know who are not 'getting out' but are doing the prepartory work from within systems so that when the changes come they will be in good places to work with that. Also we are going to need people who can work within dysfunctional and unsustainable systems (who will look after the the nuclear power plants if there is a societal collapse? I for one will be grateful for the people who stayed in the system and kept those skills).

    Ultimately for me permaculture is about consciousness and the place we come from in ourselves in living in the world, not whether we are following certain rules about what's the right way to do it.
     
  2. Mudman

    Mudman Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    When I started reading the list it sounded like a suicide pact, all this leaving stuff
    Nothing wrong with society if you don't get caught up in all the consumerism.
    Its just another one of those constants in the world.

    Couldn't imagine going completely back to our roots.
    Makes me think of the Talking Heads song "(Nothing But) Flowers.
     
  3. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    Just like I said, Old and Unpopular...

    I must enquire of you though,,,'How many of you are 'designers?',,,,and you Designers are the 'army of trainers, to train an army of trainers' required by Permaculture to bring about the changes we need to save the world.

    And you are doing it from the city and the burbs?

    Is it any wonder that 'It' has skipped a generation!...on your watch?

    I expect you city designers that are not actively training,,,must hide your certificates so as they do not provide an uncomfortable contradiction to your lives.
    Surely you don't have the appalling bad taste to suggest you are 'the army'? --oh-oh 'we are in a lot of trouble'.

    You are the solution,,,(oh boy).

    Permaculture has always had an uncomfortable similarity to the old Amway....you could sponsor a hundred, maybe a thousand turkeys before you get an eagle.

    Retards, Kimbo
     
  4. nsainsbury

    nsainsbury Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    So are you one of those who scared the GP off amway? Pushing and pushing without ever knowing when to STFU and let the prospect make their own mind up. Not that it really matters, I hope you have a nice passive income funding your "getting out".
    As to this classification BS, you obviously have not reached a position where you realise that we are all teachers/designers/consumers. Yes even you are a consumer by your own admittance. It is crap like this which scares people off. I know you think you are special, but you are not. Indeed the way you preach reminds me of many others who have pissed me off in the past.
    I am sure you do have plenty of knowledge which would be very helpful to many here including myself. However the holier more wiser than thou attitude will cause many to listen/read only with half attention, the rest is busy thinking - shut up you tool.
     
  5. fruit fly

    fruit fly Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    Kimbo no one on this forum claims to have all the answers or to be' designers of the future' we are just like minded people who love life and want to share there expriences & expertise with each other which I think is cool. Im no authority on the anything but i reckon the direction of this thread is going no where.
    I just want advice on how to grow spuds better and stuff like that which is useful. not who is going to be the next guru
    no one is greater than anyone else, we are are all on our own journey . I dont think anyone has to to prove anything to be a permie.
    just my thoughts cheers fruit fly :D
     
  6. nsainsbury

    nsainsbury Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    Well said
     
  7. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    check out this shit.

    Bill Mollison proposesd there were problems bigger than our comfort, our traditions, our current belief systems.
    Bills stand informed us that there were at least some people that held social change to be paramount.

    "who are you to be telling us", "where do you get this holier than though attitiude," "jerk, pull the other one"
    they fairly took to old crusty.

    In 2009, perplexed at the same shit going down as there was 30 years ago, I a designer, located a Permaculture Forum.
    Within that forum I post a very successful 'sort'.

    I suggest 'what should be a tasty titbit' in a place like this.

    And I get a basting......'where do you get off with your 'holier than though shit', 'who made you the teacher', 'I don't see the point of this thread', 'I thought this was a suicide pact'...ad nauseum!

    If Bill came on talking like he used to, you bastards would roast him.

    Of all the places to get 'trolled en masse'...........Certainly won't make friends reminding Permaculture Designers of what a PCD was designed to be, at The Permaculture Discussion Forum.

    I am no longer perplexed at the lack of change...This Forum has served my purpose.....
    but it does upset me.....I believed in Amway to....and yes I pushed it (Tosser)

    retards,Kimbo
     
  8. nsainsbury

    nsainsbury Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    Would suggest it is a natural reaction to someone setting themselves up as better than others and designing a "sort" to support their claim.
     
  9. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    Sorry Mr Kimbo, have you thought about using another forum - like https://www.doomers.us/forum2/index.php? A few ppl from here use that one too, but the passion and optimism here is refreshing. I think most people here are a few levels up as they don't see the need to overly defend their positions on permaculture. So relax, its not a religion - your original post seemed like a good idea - to find out where ppl are at. But if i want to be lorded over i can drive through Toorak or Dalkeith. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  10. Burra Maluca

    Burra Maluca Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    Please remember Kimbo is a hermit - after years of avoiding people it's only natural that when he finally sticks his neck/head out in a permaculture forum he's going to want to know what other people are up to. And after a being a permie for years he's going to have his own pretty clear ideas of what it means to him. I'm a bit of a hermit myself and virtually all the socialising I get is via forums. Without that, I'd have absolutely no idea what anyone else was up to....

    As for me, I've dodged society as much as possible, have 15 acres of rural Portugal complete with off the grid farm, but ended up living in an on-the-grid house in the village as I have a bed-ridden uncle who needs someone to care for him. Off the grid just isn't suitable for him. I spend as much time at the farm and in the forest as I can, use a humanure system at the farm and in the shed for most of the family and a flush toilet (re-used laundry water) for uncle, am planting up a food forest, doing an online PDC with my homeschooled son and am constantly trying to convert my other half to no-dig. I spend hours happily composting and mulching, experiment with different seeds and plants and ground covers, and share what I learn with whoever will listen and pick other people's brains whenever I can. I won't consider myself a true permie, or hermit, until I'm an old lady living alone in a self-built shack in the forest and totally self sufficient in power and food with only an equally ancient donkey and a few bees for company. But that's the dream that keeps me going. For now I'm restricted and happily living the life I need to live now. However anyone else chooses to classify it.
     
  11. nsainsbury

    nsainsbury Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    That's fine and to be encouraged. The way you learn is by asking questions and this is certainly the place for it. I had no real issue with the initial post, couldn't really see the point, but hey whatever floats your boat. The following posts were quite condescending, at least in parts, and people will generally feel slighted by such attitudes.

    I would suggest that you are fairly unknown to a lot of people here. I would guess that like myself, many would not have a clue who you are and you know nothing about them. You have not given us any real reason to believe in you as a trainer/teacher. You say we would flame Bill, that would be very doubtful. Unlike yourself, Bill has shown his knowledge time and time again and as such, has earnt respect as an educator. Instead of coming across as someone to learn from, you have come across as being an uppity smartarse.
    for example.
    It is shame, as I said before, I am sure you have heaps of good knowledge.
     
  12. pumpkin

    pumpkin Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    Hi Kimbo
    I am definitely entrenched in the suburbs of Canberra but my family is in the process of turning our backyard into a food forest. Mainly to give us the option of fresh, healthy and non-GMO pesticide free food. Well as much as we are able on our block - which I am finding packs in a fair bit of fruit and veg. We are already feasting on some of the early rewards.

    I guess we are a Cut 2 as well although my willingness to leave is greater than my husband's and sometimes the needs of children as well - one living at home while at uni and the other at school in Year 10.

    There is no reason why we can't all bring the burbs into the home food revolution. In fact often there are less pesticides and residues than in the country although more fumes from cars probably outweigh those benefits to some extent.

    There would be nothing more I would love than a few acres for a real go at being self-sufficient but we may have to wait for a better time when kids are no longer dependent. Rental accommodation is really difficult to find in Canberra and the costs exhorbitant so kids may have to hang on a bit longer than when I left the nest at the tender age of 16.
     
  13. paradisi

    paradisi Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    and the point is??? labelling people???

    why?
     
  14. earthabode

    earthabode Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    Thanx Kimbo for your initial post. For me it's kinda interesting to see where other people are at. Personally being part of the 5th Cut would be supercool for me. Making plans to get there but all in good time like the many others who have posted.

    It really rocks my boat, however doesn't mean it should for everyone else out there. We all come into this world with a different story, skill set, knowledge and dreams. I think cites and towns are just fine, we just need to rethink how we go about living in them. After all ants and other little creatures seem to be able to live in what seem to be micro cities, don't they? It also seems crazy to think we should all be striving for the 4th Cut anyway. I kinda like the idea that some folk are devoting 'all of their time' to redesigning, engineering, architecture, business, and the rest of our unsustainable industries. Good for them.

    The scary thing is the cut before the first cut. Let's call them the 0.5 Cutters who haven't even gained the thinking skills needed to function in our new immerging world. For example, there are 50kgs of newspapers dropped off at ever exit of every subway, every day, in big cities like Seoul (6t/day). And come 7am, almost EVERY person using the subway grabs one of these papers. Each paper is read only once, as old folk working the subways collect them with lightning speed. And if ya not reading one of these you hooked up to a mini TV, palmer, mp3, cell, etc. Almost NO ONE is
    . My point is congrats to anyone who is a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th Cutter because the large majority of humanity are 0.5 Cutters.

    I very much like the permaculture ways bar one thing. And that's the often guru worship mentality in permaculuture and the absolute certainty that permacultre is THE answer to all of our problems. I love that big tomb of a book of Bills. Thank you Bill. And love the quote which states
    Just one question for those in the know. Are there strong connections between the big wigs of permacultre and those of biodynamics, organic farming, and other such groups? After all we are all in this together.

    Kimbo, I don't always like everything you post, but that’s OK with me. Difference is good.

    EarthAbode
     
  15. nsainsbury

    nsainsbury Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    Very much agree with this, which is also where I disagree with labeling people. I know a guy who's 2 passions are bicycles and bees. He is not into organic anything but makes the best honey I have ever tasted and can bore me stupid for hours on end with his knowledge of bees and how to tune a bike wheel. I do not care that he is not a 5th level permy. He knows his shit and this is where I will go for help when the time comes to start keeping my own. Every one had knowledge of value.
    I am not in the know, but would like to start a conspiracy theory with the above concept.
     
  16. earthabode

    earthabode Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    Not really all that interested in the conspiracy theory thing. Just wanta know if there are strong ties between these fields? After all suggesting permacultrure to have all the answers would be totally NOT permaculture, wouldn't it?

    I think that if anything will assist in mainstreaming permaculture it is the open minded, receptive folk who are integrative and multidisciplinary in their approach. And there seem to be many people like this in permaculture. All good.

    Earthabode
     
  17. nsainsbury

    nsainsbury Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    Serious answer now.

    Not sure, but would hope so. Although, then again does not matter as such. I am sure that the majority here would be sort of multidiciplinary. I know I am on many other forums and look at many other sites. I also have many books that are about the garden, but do not even mention permaculture, byo dynamics or anything remotely similar. As we are all teachers, we can pass on the differing ideas.
    Perhaps that's even better. Leave the big wigs to develop their individual concepts as far as possible.
     

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