We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by kimbo.parker, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

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    We're a demographic and I propose a sort-

    The First Cut ; Individuals who realise the terminal nature of society, cities and the burbs.
    The Second Cut ; individuals prepared to leave.
    The Third Cut ; individuals who succeed in leaving.
    The Fourth Cut ; individuals who sustain this position into permanence.

    * After 4 cuts we have a fairly pure product, refined by intellect, individuality, courage, resilience and success.

    The Fifth Cut ; individuals that teach, promote, propagate and nurture the 'New Ways' to the dangerously stupid masses.

    * Bugger that! you would expect many players would not aspire to the Fifth Cut.

    The Sixth Cut ; Fifth Cutters that sustain that level unto permanence....basically staying alive is the only pre-requisite at this level,,,
    by virtue of the fact that you'd be old and you'd be unpopular.

    Regards, Kimbo
     
  2. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.

    So Kimbo - which cut fits you? I'm thinking that you are verging on leaping into number 5....
     
  3. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.

    indeed, 'Fifth Cutter and proud..... (or Fifth Cutter and stupid),,,,,,mmmm both :wink:
    and what about you Jane Jetson? aka eco4560...

    regards, Kimbo
     
  4. missf

    missf Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.

    Im a third cutter .. what is the point of the survey??
     
  5. ppp

    ppp Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.

    the fact that we are all on the internet suggest we are all in class 2?
     
  6. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.

    PPP, mate
    how do you figure that,,are you saying that you can't be out and have the internet....it is not true...I'm out and I do (laptop with Wireless Broadband)

    'the point of the survey'.....from the perspective of me the Poster...it was more a challenge than a survey
    I suggest that others,,viewers could use it as a survey....

    I also like the inbuilt capacity of a post (like this) to draw out information. It is a multifunctional post (permaculture :wink: )

    Suppose you saw me fishing,,,would you think I was giving bait to the ocean,,,you could look at it that way and it would be correct..
    There is what is (bait) and there is what could be (fish)

    And there is also the slight hint that I might consider myself a fifth cutter,,and I'm just doing that fifth cutter shit,,it is kinda like teasing,,
    and you said you were,,' A Second Cutter' ,,,
    that must be nice for you :wink:

    regards, Kimbo
     
  7. ppp

    ppp Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.

    I said nothing of the sort in regard to my circumstances, but hey awesome that you are providing your own food, clothes, tools, building materials, electricity, equipment to make electricity, minerals to make and use the tools that use the electricity (laptop), medicines etc. Hey I'm not having a go at you, I'm just suggesting that it isn't black and white, everyone has or is getting something from society. It's just a matter of to what degree..
     
  8. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.

    Ahha,,sussed it!...the language is not specific enough.

    So I will clarify;

    "Getting Out" - the worst place to experience our society is at it's centres,,the cities and the burbs -it really is cliche -all those dreams of getting away to the country, shades of Grass Roots Landline/Linkup. 'Getting Out' has a physical /spatial/geographical element to it.

    we're agreed on that?

    I reckon there's also a psychological element to 'Getting Out' that is basically a renunciation of 'the system'...a desire to be more self sufficient stems from this.

    I am confident this is not a stretch.

    so PPP
    Your loosing me here mate,, I am outside the system,,,but,,,if I need a tool, I go into the system to get it. I go into the system when I go to the systems dump for my stuff,,I leave it when I'm done..

    PPP man, maybe you don't believe I actually leave, or can leave the system. Language again I'm sure.
    I do not live in a closed system, there are no closed systems (Permaculture).....The system that my system is in, is an immediate sub-set of 'The Environment'.
    The system that I advocate fleeing from is the 'Money System" , a subset of the predominant social system (Society). My system is a subset of neither :D
    But as we are all in the union of sets,,,the environment,,,i can do this shit,,,so can you mate.

    When I proffer 'it' as a direction for the aspiring there are no contradictions,,,solid science here,,,tried and tested,,,fear not.
    This Granny Talk of not being able to go to the shop is sad ,,,,,,,,because it could get in the road of a "young up an comer"

    Ofcourse you have money even when you're out of the money system,,, you venture in, and you get out again because your past it. You definately are not a slave to it- you avoid the division of labor- you carry no monetary debt...you are a nett producer and not a nett consumer...

    No one can scam this....we'll audit you,,,energy, consumptive practices, pollutants,...enviromental impact - your total footprint mate,,,
    we just punch in the data and hit enter

    please accept my apologies for language that may not have been " insert word here"

    regards Kimbo
    and guys as I've mentioned previously...if ever I sign off "retards, Kimbo" it is a typo.
     
  9. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.

    I would say we are probably 4th cutters but would have to add we have no desire to go to 5th cut - let the dangerously stupid masses reap what they sowed :lol:

    frosty grouchie old bag
     
  10. drrdave27

    drrdave27 Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.

    definatley first cut.
     
  11. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.

    Well, for my 2 cents worth i/we am/are 2.5 cutters, and the next 2.5 is not really dependant on cash - just a few family commitments. Now i have been through alot of sites (esp. survivalacres) and i can see what is going on around us but with the "idiot" factor and economic down turn the rest of the masses aren't too bright and don't have many options for the moment other than to keep on what they are doing. - So to all the other 2.5 ers out there thinking "wish i was at 3-4" take heart if the doomer predictions come true - this will be a slow burn so we have time to burn too. Just look and learn and do small trials and learn some more. :) :smurf:
     
  12. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.

    Thanks for asking Kimbo - I'm a second cutter. But ask me after a particularly bad day at work and I might be ready to leap into 3 sooner rather than later....
     
  13. trishandpete

    trishandpete Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    Kimbo, I reckon 2.5, with 3-4 on the horizon. I don't ever want to get to the point where I leave any system for ever... we are a long time looking at the lid, and it's good to be able to negotiate any social space, and then return to haven at will. Adaptability is key. T
     
  14. fruit fly

    fruit fly Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    Gday,
    I dont like to think i belong in any cut. I just want to live and lead a REAL life. To me eating my own food ive produced drinking water ive collected from my roof, communing with nature is living for real to me. And to do it in a fashion that im causing no harm to anyone or anything helps me sleep at night.
    As far as society goes there's no changing it. I think the majority of people will always do things the easiest and cheapest way they can.
    How else will they be able to buy the 5 plasma televisions that Gerry Harvey wants to sell into every Australian home.
    Society has to take responsiblity for itself.No one can change it .While ever it is easy and conveient to live people will go on making themseleves feel good with shiney new TV's, cars, boats etc thats what they are told they need so thats what they have to have.Sad thing is mother earth is at everyones expence.
    As far as leaving society, I would love to but for me its not possible I still have bills to pay , buy food that I can not grow etc. So Im a hippocrite I go off to work everyday with the rest of society trying to obtain the unobtainable . sux hey :lol:

    fruit fly
     
  15. Salkeela

    Salkeela Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    I do think that any way of classifying people is usually an oversimplification.

    I was brought up in a country area and still live there. We grow a load of our own food - fruit, veggies, pigs, hens etc. Water recycles off the roof and we've started composting humanure too.

    Yet it is not possible to drop right out. To do so would mean removing our children from "the system" which reduces their flexibility. Much better to let them be exposed to both worlds. My eldest daughter is at uni and loving the studying - she is also living in town with friends learning all about just getting along .... She works and brings in most of her own spending, but we pay her rent and heating bills.

    I work. I didn't when the kids were small and we did a load of scrimping to get by and still manage to pay our mortgage and not run up debt. We had time, but very little money for our plans. Now we have less time, but some cash to buy the trees we want to plant, the hen house that can keep the fox out etc. Soon we will own this place outright - it's been a long haul.

    If life is to get tougher, I would rather work now and create a cushion to ease the blows than not work. We are increasing the insulation on our house now & changing our heating system because we can afford to make those long over due changes now.

    The system still works for us, because we can use it to our benefit. We do our best to steer away from the consumerist stuff - but washing clothes by hand is not something I'm in a hurry to do. If the current washing machine breaks and is un-repairable we will replace it!
     
  16. missf

    missf Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    id love to be totally out but theres a few problems there. I need a bank account for transactions with income and outgoings (now that its no longer given in cash)
    and I cant sew my own stitches on myself if I badly injure myself.
    oh and communication with others which means internet , phone (pigeons are way slow and they stop for pigeon raves on the way)
    so Ill alway be stuck to society and the system just with those 3 things... oh and I cant make my own mechanical parts for tractor and cars and if i own a car and not a horse (dont think you can ride your horse in the pub anymore to get it watered ) I d need to keep it registered and insured and maintained ....sheesh this list just keeps getting longer!!!!!.. guess thats more than 4 reasons why id have to go visit those other funny people on this earth..
     
  17. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    No, not really. Have you seen David Holmgren's work on permaculturing the suburbs? Living in a city or not has nothing to do with an individual or groups ability to permaculture.

    If you are talking about leaving society so that it doesn't work, that's what the USians call rewilding, and there won't be any computers.

    I'm not really sure what's being discussed here :?
     
  18. nsainsbury

    nsainsbury Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    Is there a seventh level where you realise that you should really get your hand off it and stop making categories so that you can feel superior to others?
     
  19. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    Isn't the seventh level in Tantra when you achieve god-hood? Is there a god of Permaculture?
     
  20. Luisa

    Luisa Junior Member

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    Re: We're a demographic - lets do a sort.-check out the players!

    I don't know what level I'm on. I'm with Salkeela, as it's not easy to just drop/leap out. We don't have the skills so we stay put but we are much less consumerist that most (and always have been). We have 3 acres and a country cottage in suburbia, buy from the supermarket as we learn to grow some things, repair the car, go the doctor's when necessary, etc.

    There are many constraints to how people live, not just $$ or social expectations.

    I work part-time in an office and there are benefits to that, I have 100% Irish genepool and sunburn if I'm out in the sun so can't really work in the yard during the day no matter how well intentioned. I hate air con but I have to work in it and at least I don't sunburn inside the office. My partner is 60+ and has some mild disabilities which make him unemployable and limit his effectiveness in labouring on the property. I can't do a lot of physically hard work (female, 46, with a bad back) either so we end up employing people (usually men) to do many of the heavy jobs.

    I think the concept of rewilding is "interesting" but can't see it working well as people congrgegate in groups and settle down as a form of efficiency (for humans, if not the rest around them/us).

    I also think the idea of suburban permaculture is a great one, and want to see how that will work and how we can contribute. By the way, my partner has a friend who is 50+ and profoundly disabled from a shooting accident as a teenager. I don't see how he would survive without suburbia and community. He earns an income though, as a computer engineer, and has a full life within the constraints imposed on him.
     

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