Weeds or Wild Nature?

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by 9anda1f, Nov 11, 2013.

  1. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Pull up a chair or find a comfortable spot to read and relax in while you read David Holmgren's new article which laments the adversarial approach to certain species as "invasive" and "threats" ... a meme that reflects the western worlds "conflict with nature".

    https://permaculturenews.org/2013/11/12/weeds-wild-nature-permaculture-perspective/
     
  2. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Permaculturist: Do not try to eradicate the weeds. That is impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth.
    Neo: What truth?
    Permaculturist: There are no weeds.

    :)

    Fukuoka belived it, Holzer does, & it has been my observational education on my property as well.
     
  3. Rick Larson

    Rick Larson Junior Member

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    I liked how Mr. Holmgren was aware not all naturalizations are good ones.

    My backyard garden was totally neglected for more than a decade. Now I wish I documented the succesions of weeds that led to a build up of rich topsoil. The first weeds were smaller, I remember purslane, purple loosestrife, I think chicory, and others, mostly those with less leaf on stems.

    Then it became pigweed, to catnip, to yarrow, then it was 6 foot tall goldenrod! All the while the garlic and spring onions fought for a glimpse of the sun, so they have become naturalized as well.
     
  4. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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  5. helenlee

    helenlee Junior Member

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  6. helenlee

    helenlee Junior Member

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    Thank you for the link :)
    I love this topic :)
    I'll get back to you on it :)
     
  7. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    There's really no angle that he hasn't taken into consideration. I always enjoy reading anything by David Holmgren, even if I have to put my thinking hat on to do it.
     
  8. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    What do you call a plant that self-seeds where it is not welcome then?
     
  9. helenlee

    helenlee Junior Member

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    Indicator?
    Signal?
    Pointer?
    Successful?
    I dunno .. what would you call it S.O.P?
    :)
     
  10. void_genesis

    void_genesis Junior Member

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    I was curious about the claim that it is impossible to eradicate a weed once it is established.

    Does anyone know of a single example where a government or environmental agency has managed to actually eradicate a weed species once it is reasonably well established? Tiny infestations of potential weeds that are detected before they self propagate don't count of course......the species may never have become truly invasive in the habitat for a wide variety of reasons.
     
  11. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    A weed using the term by its very definition.

    An indicator wouldn't be a weed. Pointer is similar.

    Successful is too wishy-washy, Tony Abbott for example.

    Weed is a plant that sows itself where it's not wanted or needed. Needed being the term to focus on. Willows may be needed by a creek but I don't need a Chinese Elm growing from a crack in the foundation of my house.
     
  12. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Depending on where I'm headed next they are called compost ingredients, green chook food or worm food.
    I call them volunteer native herbs. Or shrubs or trees depending on what they are. But everything is welcome at my place. Like Captain Jack Sparrow (I'm sure he's a permie) says - "The problem isn't the problem. The problem is your attitude to the problem."
    And I'm grateful for them because they save me having to buy compost ingredients, or quite as much chook food. Sometimes they end up in my lunch depending on what it is. If they ever stop arriving I'll be lost! Even the Singapore Daisy and I have called a truce. It's a good compost ingredient once you treat it right first (soak in a tub until nothing is left of it).

    Genesis it reminds of the either the war on drugs (not winning there) or the war on vaccine preventable illness. Only win has been small pox. All the others are still here. In fact I'm pretty sure that you can guarantee that any human activity that starts with "war on…" anything will be pretty pointless and largely about something else other than what it appears to be at first glance. The war on terror is the daftest of the lot. Reminds me of my favourite bumper sticker. "Fighting for peace is like F$cking for virginity".
     
  13. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    I've been on one side of the fence or another over the years when it comes to exotic invasive species. Weeds do not bother me. Native invasives do not bother me. Exotic invasives(EIs) are the ones that I have quandaries about. EIs fill a niche so well that the native species has no chance. EIs displace native vegetation. And to be honest, I wouldn't have a problem with EIs if they didn't screw with the animal and insect populations. The only thing I can say about EIs in the US is that China doesn't have to march an invading army to control us: we have their invasive plants and now we're getting more of their invasive insects. The southern US is turning in to an asian country. Which is only a problem because we are losing biodiversity because of it(I couldn't care less who controls the US govt, they're all the same in the end).

    I personally use the traditional definition of a weed: a plant not in its right place. The determination of right/wrong place is done by the human observing the plant and is not necessarily true to all humans observing the plant(ie: a weed to me is not a weed to you). In your question, I would call the plant a weed, even if it's just a weed to you. Yarrow shading out my onions would be an example of a weed, even though I do have yarrow planted in the yard. I don't have a problem with the word "weed" because I know it doesn't have a negative connotation normally. Exotic and invasive do have negativity attached to them and those are the words we should be using.

    I've had this discussion outside of these forums before:

    Low Invasive Population = little political will, low cost, eradication possible
    Medium Invasive Population = little political will, medium cost, eradication unlikely but possible
    High Invasive Population = high political will, high cost, eradication impossible which leads to management(dumping tons of chemicals in to the environment, though there are examples of mechanical management)

    You also won't read about invasive eradication since it's flying low on the public's radar and not newsworthy, though I am pretty sure that it happens sometimes.
     
  14. songbird

    songbird Senior Member

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    usually worm food, green manure, mulch or fill if i'm putting up or planting gardens.

    around here we have about 7 years of time you can leave a space before it gets taken over by 30ft poplars. the climax species are white pine and oak trees. food forests or any open land have to be maintained in some manner to prevent progression (or even to slow it down).
     
  15. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    My property. :D

    Seriously though, if there is a state in the union with a problem of invasive species it is OR with the Himalyan blackberry. It has disrupted the normal ecology of here and is forcing its own will on the forests, primarly the edge areas.
     

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