weedkillers ...Len

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by ~Tullymoor~, Oct 22, 2005.

  1. ~Tullymoor~

    ~Tullymoor~ Junior Member

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    Yes, it's complimentary, ya wally :lol: :lol: You crack me up!

    Cripes I was asking about that course eons ago....you got a photographic memory or sommat?? Nope, didn't enrol in it, haven't done a course...obviously, or I could debate topics such as this instead of just being an audience :oops:
     
  2. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    yeah I wanted to do it but never got around to it,

    Looks like ill be spending the money on a aaquaponics tank and pump,im
    lucky ,the dealer in tanks owes me money from a few jobs ill be getting a tank this week maybe ill see

    Tezza
     
  3. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Hi Tezza and Tullymoor (D) :love7:

    It sure is quiet with out a ruckus to make noise about.

    I miss biofarmag.... whish he'd explain more of his thoughts and not runway when questioned.... or have the courage to address the issues as I see them...

    Dang, ya know, this is the first confrontation I've had to deal with in a long time... D'ja know sumting? I enjoyed it!

    And Joel, you diplomat, ITS NOT a step in the right direction! Its seeing one problem, and creating twenty to solve the one. Using herbicides, even "small amounts" is like pissing in the rain vat. Its not going anywhere! It's right here in the rain vat with you, me, Tezza, Tully (D), bigagrofarmer, Frosty, Franceyne, Richard and the frogs. Joel, how many shares you own of Monsanto stock ?.... :lol:

    We will never convince him because he didn't even read what was written, and he obviously has a lot of himself (I mean personally, not financially) invested in this "modern agriculture". He misquoted me, and refused to answer any questions or address any of the issues I brought up.

    And he's not a dummy. His web page is full of interesting stuff. But his thought that Round Up is "harmless" is simply wrong, as Frosty can sadly attest to, and the simplistic thought that round up stops erosion, so therefore round up is good, is dangerously one dimensional, which leads me to think wonder if he is a paid propagandist agrochemical pimp for Monsanto, (which he probably is not....)

    I would have loved it if he would have acknowledged that the end users of these chemicals are mostly not in airconditioned combines, at least not in the developing world, but carrying leaky back pack sprayers, and do not have goggles, nor masks, nor suits, and are exposed directly to this toxic mess (ever see a back pack sprayer mixed with a hand? I have, over my loud objections..... "Round up is safe, mon, no worries. Round up, mon, is safer den salt! I read about it on line by a known expert on agro bio farming, and he said its afe to DRINK!...").

    I wish he would explain more, because maybe there IS some benefit, but I ain't seen it yet, and he didn't try to explain it.

    C'mon, you yellow bellied coward! Show your face! COME OUT AND POST LIKE A MAN! (I was jes' kiddin', man, we is frenz.... :lol: )

    (Sorry agrbiofarmer guy dude. Wish you had at least answered my questions..... )

    C
     
  4. earthbound

    earthbound Junior Member

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    Gees, yur juust eechin fer a foight aint ya....... ? Cumon den..... :axe: :lol:

    Now Big C, I think that you may have misinterpreted my post there... I said..
    I am talking about his 'intention'. His intent is to save soils and have farmers grow food in a more sustainable environmentally friendly way. Whether the methods promoted and practiced are the best, is not what I was talking about..... To have the intention of working with farmers to save topsoil, and farm in a more environmentally way, IS a small step in the right direction, is it not..........?

    I was trying to find something positive out of the situation, and trying a different tact as blatantly argueing one point against the other was not working..... I have found that when someone has put their defenses up and they are adamant that they will not agree with what you are saying then you can keep going :banghead: or you can try a diferent tact.. Argueing for arguement sake is generally not constructive and clearly at the end of the day someone did get poked in the eye...

    Just my thoughts...... :?
    Joel

    p.s. And don't even joke about monsanto or shares, that will get me angry..... :evil: :lol: :lol:
     
  5. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    At least some of the farmers that bought into the chemical-fertilizer-&-pesticide claims back in the 50's & 60's may be taking a second or even a third look. Personally, I don't really expect many of them to make the big jump to permaculture, but I guess we should be grateful that they're making any effort at all.

    BTW, Mollison DID mention using gasoline-powered equipment and possibly even herbicides for an initial, one-time use to clear land. I'm not certain of which specific book it was.

    Sue
     
  6. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Sue,

    Yes, Bill Mollison said there may be uses for these chemicals, but I disagree with that thought. Many of these chemicals are inherently dangerous, and even minute amounts of exposure run serious risks of long term adverse effects. The effects are insidious, and some trake a long time to show up.

    In my opinion, herbicdes should be banned, and the cost of food should increase, which would accurately reflect the cost of production, eliminating the indorect and direct subsidies. Without all the hidden costs (oil, pesticide residue on food, loss of biodiversity, more oil, wars to get oil, oil spills, the 10 lbs of byproducts per lb of pesticide in manufacturing, the lives damaged by nerve damage, the lives shortened by cancer, the threat to reproduction created by endocrine disruptors, more oil, more oil, more oil, more oil, higher carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere, global warm, etc, etc, etc) being calculated, food is cheap. But it comes at a very high price, and that price is usually dismissively refered to as "externalities".

    Sorry, Joel. Yer right! I misinterpreted.

    I wouldn't call it a step forward, even as you state it, more like a step sideways....

    The intention may be good, but the reality is, sadly, not, or, to put it in a more enjoyable metaphor, getting hit in the head five times is better than getting hit 6 times.

    I would has stated it more like "too bad his good intentions run the risk of convincing other people that stupid and dangerous agricultural practices are some how 'safe' or 'environmentally friendly', putting them, their soil biota, the watersheds they are in, and their neighbors at risk of exposure to dangerous and persistent toxins..." or something like that, which shows what a diplomat you are, but I'm in a combative mood over this, hungry for some more hide to chew on, and bigagfarmer ran away before answering ANYTHING!

    (The a$$hole in me, that part of me I don't like, my evil twin, rises to the surface "Help...me.... stop... the ... takeover..of...my..... body... by my... ... EVIL TWIN!....." )

    For someone with obviously a lot of information, (And I am very impressed with his web page) to not defend his own demonstrably false (talk w/Frosty about it!) statement about the safety of Round Up is appalling. Its misleading. Its either deceptive or clueless.

    If there is no Round Up being used, there are no unfortunate victims of unintentional poisoning.

    BTW, Joel, d'j sell all your Monsanto shares yet? :lol:

    C
     
  7. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    In backyard cricketing parlance biofarmags performance is what we call, "taking your bat and ball and going home".
    So, for want of an argument, I shall valiantly take up the cause of the devil's advocate!
    Anyone here know of Dr Paul Recher? Not sure of your exact vintage Uncle Christopher, but you may well be something of a contemporary with this character, and what you definitely share in common with him is that you are a refugee from New York, and you are obsessed with diversified tropical tree based agriculture, or what I like to call, after Uncle Bill, Food Forestin'.
    So, Dr. Paul, a professor of ethnobotany has this incredibly gorgeous awesome property in Northern NSW near Dunoon and Rosemount, backing onto the Whian Whian State forest. I think he has about twenty acres of trees he planted, and the remainder of his property is native forest. He competes with possums and fruit bats for his share of the food, and even as the animal population abounds, and no doubt exceeds the carrying capacity of the native bush, I think he gets a fair chunk of his diet from his trees. If he harvested some of those possums he would be a lot closer to 100%, but I think he is vegetarian.
    He has done quite a few segments for Gardening Australia I believe. His main income from the place back then was selling seeds of the useful plants he has collected. He makes a pretty good sideline in showing tourists around his place, walks around showing them all his lovely exotic fruit trees, of which he has many, and grokking on with his cosmological truths.
    I realised that I was wwoofing for some folks in a valley on the other side of the mountain to him, and got the idea to go check out his place, since on tv it looked so cool. So I called him up and was disappointed to hear that his tour rate was $100 an hour. I said that was out of my price range and maybe I could tag along when a tour group came by. He ummed and ahed and in the end we settled on the idea that I could come by and do some work and spend the night and check the place out that way.
    I was more than happy to do this, since working with masters is a great way to learn...
    So, I rode my bike over the mountain, and it was a hardcore cycle but very beautiful. He thought I must be crazy to do that, and so I think he was more sympathetic to the idea of having me around, since he is most defnitely as mad as a cut snake.
    Anyway, I'll cut to the chase. His place is seriously the best example of a mature food forest I have ever seen before or since. More species, more humus, more food than I have seen growing in one place ever. I was curious about his methods of establishment and he was totally upfront that he used roundup to control the weeds establishing his trees. He even used roundup, or maybe some other chemical herbicide, to paint on the stumps of the pioneer legumes that he chopped and dropped and then replaced with fruit trees. I was quite shocked at his candid manner in relation to using chemicals, and he totally spat the dummy, ranting for a while about how the environmental movement in general and Permies specifically "They've got the wrong guy man! They've got the wrong guy!!!". I must admit I didn't register his argument too well, being as I was a little overcome with sensory overload, trying to take in all the plants and this hyperactive and hyperintelligent guy, and what was basically a profound shock to my worldview, that a cool old drugfucked hippy was advocating chemical weed control, but I think that the gist was that he believed that glyphosate is a compound that mimics a growth hormone common to all plants and that it breaks down in the environment very quickly. I can't really remember who the guy that he had problem was, but it certainly wasn't roundup.
    Anyway, I do know that there are other ways to establish trees without using chemicals, but I do have to admit that they are incredibly labour intensive. I haven't seen anyone really establish what I would consider a Permaculture without a reliance on free or nearly free labour and or chemicals. It is hard to argue with people who put a high value on their time and are addicted to instant gratification.
    So, I don't know. I think that food forests certainly can be established with methods such as sheet mulch, and using rampant groundcovers that can outcompete the grasses. I think that this is preferable to using chemicals. I sometimes get tempted to try a few one off applications of roundup on the runner grasses that just go straight through the thickest layers of cardboard and straw, and seem to laugh at the feeble efforts of the most aggressive strains of sweet potato I have, and the thickest plantings of pidgeon peas. So far, I haven't succumbed to temptation. But I watch my neighbour spraying roundup and killing half an acre of the same grass with 2 applications, and look at my little area of maybe 1/16th of an acre, and wonder if after all the work I have done, and it still hasn't really beaten the grass, which will be 2 foot thick and strangling fruit trees in another month if I don't do something about it, and I just wonder if sometimes the ends don't justify the means after all.
    I know it is a different argument to the one biofarmag would have made, but someones gotta keep the argument going. :roll: :lol:
     
  8. earthbound

    earthbound Junior Member

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    I've seen his place on tv before, very beautiful..
    https://www.nrg.com.au/~recher/

    He's got one hell of a seed list, though it looks like his prices for tours have come down a bit Richard......

    Ohhhhhhh, don't think you'll like some of his comments in there big C, I don't like them myself......... :?
     
  9. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Oh goodness. My reminiscence led me to google the old boy and he has a website now. His philosophy is summed up pretty well there, here's a quote:
    If you's are interested in his pages: https://www.nrg.com.au/~recher/
     
  10. barely run

    barely run Junior Member

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    You been chatting to my husband Richard?.....
    I have trouble convincing him that glycophospate is as bad as we know..."How can it be that bad if all the farmers use it"...I have the same problem with too much grass and a limit to how much cardboard and hay I want around the place. Peigon pea???would that be an alternative and does it need mowing (YUK). as I physically can't do the heavy clearing and getting farm labour has so far been impossible he says use Round-up.
    Haven't gone back to WWOOFER's yet as last time they weren't much use as workers but nice to have as visitors ... mainly because I am at work and none of them had a clue about garden or farm work. ONly time it was a sucess was when I was able to work with them which I suppose is the way WWOOFER's is set up.
    The non chemical approach is definetly more labour intensive which is such a problem for Aust. that has a shortage of people willing to do manual labour...and then you drift off into the welfare state and work for the dole and supporting parents benifits and all that other stuff.....don't want to go there!!!!
    Does anyone know if straight wood chips will really suppress weeds that is without weed mat black plastic etc and how deep does it need to be...what about termites and such that I dont want around my timber house
    Cheers
    Cathy :roll:
     
  11. ~Tullymoor~

    ~Tullymoor~ Junior Member

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    Ok, so how soon after spraying can I plant the new plants/trees??
    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  12. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Joel, I may have exaagerated the price in myh memory too. As an itinerant bicycle riding wwoofer I had no cash and any amount of money at the time would've seemed like a fortune I had better spend on puncture repair glue!
    I think Rechers argument, not fully outlined on his site perhaps, is sort of along the lines of "there are lots of people (military/industry/ag) out there doing bad things causing lots of pollution", so measured against the prevailing tide, the work of Fruit Spirit, of collecting useful plants and making their seed available as well as growing food locally is perhaps worth the relatively small amount of pollution caused by the judicious and perhaps pragmatic use of toxic chemicals.
    Besides, who among us doesn't employ toxic chemicals? We're all looking at computers right now, I assume, and they are one of the most toxic toys you can find, if you consider the mess made in their manufacture.
    Of course, I am arguing for arguments sake. I myself eschew the use of chemicals in the garden. I do however like to keep an open mind about even the sacredest cows! :razz:
    Cathy, the idea with the straw and newspaper/carboard is that you "disappear" it quite quickly anyway. It will need to be covered into a green mass of plants that you desire soon anyway, or the plants you don't want there will quickly invade all that lovely mulch. "Nature abhors a vacuum" is the principle here I suppose. If you really can't stand to see beds of hay everywhere, maybe just do a little bit at a time. When I think of the worm heaven going on when I see a bed a hay or straw I get all happy. :D
    Pidgeon pea is a shrub getting 2 to 3 metres tall, so now, you don't mow it, but pruning it a few times a year (for mulch) will help it to not get leggy and will prolong its lifespan.
    Woodchips on their own would work for a while, if you got them thick enough, say one to two feet deep! But I would still put a layer of cardboard down first!
     
  13. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Gee funny how we beleive as gospel those who we see on tv or certasin drug suffering ex hippys well maybe he does have a few loose screws.Or tht he is intitled to his opinion, as we all agreed.Dont mean hes right does it.Would everyone beleive me if i showed a video of fruit tree,herb,and vegie growing with weeds...Dont laugh I can go video it now if ya want..My thing i tell people is,Dont have more space then you can handle.

    If ya got that much space you cant hand wead,leave it til you can.if you remove thell be back in 10 days,on that average it would take !5 times per year that youd need to be removing/killing weeds.. or 15 chemical loads ,15 more exposures to a possibly dangerous chemical. !5 times ..gee thats not verry productive no onder everyones so tired in here. :lol: :lol: :lol: ..Havent you got better things to do.. like enjoying your garden..
    In my place 12 months per year from approx november to may its brown bread dead.itslifeless and fire fuel.if its seady weeds it can be used to feed poultry.if not.mulch,compost,green manureing.May to november Green
    shade ,shelter for small chicks,homes for numerous insects,bugs and visits by birds.Creates is own envioroment by maintaning teperature rather the, huge fluctuations. Less affect if frosts accur.Weeds help to break up the soil changing the structure improving as it grows...Nature is so clever itll fix its sel,f if left along long enough,which we dont allow to appen.
    when you change the system for the worse "like now" it allows other weeker species to invade, and over take the natives ending up with a more weeker system that collapses withou, say water.or fertilisers,or weeding.the stronger dominant species die off, leaving crappy bugger all.
    excuse my technical talk.

    Also please remember that when you see,or hear someone say anysprays are ok. Could just sometimes been added as a afterr thought by some ,just so as to stop that aggravating person who asks why/why not...
    we sometimes have to be seen as some controlers want us not how we really want to be.......

    Eg if some one offered me a job of designing a garden area.id refuse to use chemicals flat tack .i wont care what they do afterward. but i dont use or work with them.simple no brown noseing.no or maybe NO.

    who gives me the right to do that to someones living area,even if i am asked first. I think we better get used to the idea of weads and how to work better with them,because we may have to one day sooner than we all think.....


    Tezza
     
  14. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Another little known use of Round Up is as a breath freshener and mouth wash. A good way to start out the day is to gargle with Round UP! Or dish washing solution. Or try it as an air freshener, or a doedorant, both good uses....

    Okay, Richard, (rolling up sleves...), you had to play devils advocate, didn't you? Well, Richard, sigh, okay, hurumph, you had to come out in favor, didn't you? Well..... I'm not gonna fight you on this one. I suppose that this is the single best argument in favour of chemical use I have ever seen. Pauls farm, what little you can see on his web page, is amazing.

    I myself have come to a different position on the subject, and we are doing somthing similar (though his species list is truly amazing, and his farm is 10 years older than ours), and hope that our place may, someday, have as much diversity in species. He sounds very driven! (We Newyawkas could be dat way... know'damean? Hey? Fuggedaboudit! ) Also, he is quite comfortable promoting himself (take notes Joel, if he is "Mr Ethnobotany", you simply have to be "Mr. Aquaponics" :lol: ), something I have to work on, m'self.

    (Little side thingie for Joel: He has done a very good job of establishing himself as an "expert", which he probably is. You are NO LESS OF AN EXPERT! )

    Okay, back to the topic. I find such arguments are dangerous, because they usually exist in a vacuum of other thoughts, being single problem, sinngle solution thinking. They create slippery slopes, and once you get started, its easy to start using "just a little" fertilizer, then you might use "just a little" something else, and, in my purist way, that seems to me to be a dangerous precedent, so not a road I would take, tho I see it was used in a very positive way for him (you think HE owns stock in Monsanto?... jes' kiddin' :lol: )

    I disagree generally with the cavalier justification for using chemicals, and I think he says that because he secretly feels guilt over it... I know I would, if I came to the same conclusion (which would never happen because I am a a hardened ideologue, which means I am stuck in the mud, opinionated, difficult, and looking for a fight! Bigagfarmer, you wanna piece of me?!?! Come out and POST!)

    But.....

    I don't disagree entirely with Pauls limited use, and his reasoning is sound, and the results look impressive. If there is a trade off involved, he may have figured out a pretty good equation in favor of the planet. However, to me, the trade offs (the selfish decision to release biocides into the environment, whatever the reasoning behind the decision) include, well, poisoning the soil you eat from (OUCH), potentially inhaling or ingesting the poison, potentially damaging soil biota, potentially damaging aquatic life forms as the biocides work their way through the land and into the water way, potentially poisoning yourself and/or your neighbors, and buying ANYTHING from EVIL EVIL EVIL MONSANTO, these trade offs are simply not worth it, at least to me. EVIL!

    IMO, it is better to plant a smaller area, as Tezza suggested, better to sink more labor into the project, etc, etc,, etc, than to introduce any more chemicals into the biosphere. Also, weeds are symptoms of problems before they are problems (making any sense there?)

    That's just my personal feeling, and while I disagree with using chemicals wholeheartedly, I will grudgingly (big of me, right?) admit again that in this case... the results are impressive, and run closely parallel to my thoughts on integrated lanad management and creating working food forests.

    Now Bigag was into using Round Up for annual crops, which is a whole different bowl of soup. He even used Monsantos justification for using herbicides, "it stops erosion", which is sort of true, in a desceptive way, and, as I said yesterday, or the day before, may be worth doing IF the single biggest problem in your farm that you can identify is loss of top soil, and IF you are too short sighted to do contour plowing or alley cropping, and if your economics are based on the simplistic model of cost of inputs and labor in versus sale value x kilos per hectar x hectars out, and IF your world view is human species centric, and IF you don't bother to try to tabulate the other costs, genetic and cultural erosion, toxic run off, long term neurological damage, possibly poisoning your neighbors, dependency on foreign companies for your tools for food production, etc, etc, etc... and that is unsustainable. That is getting on Monsantos treadmill.

    So Richard, I don't wahnt to fait cha! I just want bigfarmag to come out, swinging! Where are you! Come out and POST, you lilly livered chemical advocating Round Up promoter! SELL ALL YOUR MONSANTO SHARES AND INVEST IN PERMACULTURE!!!!!(Jes kiddin'! :lol: I am soooo-ooo-o-o-o mature, ha, ha, ha :lol: ) Address the issues! I should insert the head banging emoticon, but this is too serious a matter for siliness.... :lol:

    I don't want to argue for arguments sake, tho I am enjoying it (who doesn't enjoy a soft serve icecream to whop with a paddle?), I hate it when someone says something stupid, and then, when faced with an overwheling argument decides to duck a response and run away. In NY, where I grew up, we call that "chicken shit", but I won't do that here. COME BACK AND POST!

    I suppose I could do a little victory dance, which would be so mature, and sing... >>>>ding, dong, the witch is dead...
     
  15. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    You ever notice that there is often a "hidden" user? Its Bigfarmer watching us, taking notes.

    Come out of the darkness, brother! Stop lurking!! Join the forces of goodness!

    If you can't join us, POST YOUR OPINIONS! Answer the questions! Address the issues! Grow some bigger tomatos!

    Peace be upon you,

    C
     
  16. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Hi christopher

    dont have much time we are going to see Joel 8) ( that should get you riled up with jealousy :lol: :lol: )

    I wanna play devils advocate a bit too :evil:

    so how many of you who say you would never use toxic chemicals use commercial detergents or washing powders of any scented product like deodorant or even :shock: aftershave :evil: ( note to self to post Why capitalists wanna sell you deodorant :lol: but no time now :wink: )

    they are causing just as much harm as Roundup :p well maybe nearly as much harm

    but you know the stuff about people in glass houses throwing stones :p :lol: :lol:

    frosty
    who BTW dont use any of those toxic things - the computer is my only vice :D :lol:
     
  17. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Frosty,

    I'm turning green with envy. Give Joel a big hug from me, okay?

    You ALMOST have me there. We make our own soap from coconut oil! Dawn does, however, occasionally use dish soap (with our own loofa scrubbies) and occasionally detergents. I occasionally use detergents, but only very small amounts...

    We will stop that, too, soon, tho.....

    I think Round Up is worse than detergents, tho. I' sure agrobiofarmer thinks Round Up is safer than detergent. You can use Round Up to wash veggies, you know...

    Have fun at Joels! You are sooo-o-o-ooo lucky!

    C
     
  18. earthbound

    earthbound Junior Member

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    mmmmm, there are many interesting thoughts creaping in here... These are some points I have been pondering for some time... I haven't used any sprays or chemical fertilizers since I had to when I was employed as a horticultural apprentice about 18 years ago..

    A friend who has a property in dwellingup has a stream flowing through his property, he has areas of blackberry covering a fair percentage of his land following the stream course. The blackberry thickets are inpenetrable and up to about 12 feet high, he has tried burning and pulling new suckers but he isn't there often enough to keep up with it, and he had a resident goat that refused to eat it. As he was only down there part time he is fighting a loosing battle and it's a hell of a battle.

    He needs the land to grow both food and some small commercial crops as well, so what does he do?

    He burnt the blackberry and planted other plants that are more usefull in the areas to try and smother it out but he has to keep the blackberry under control until his covering plants have grown enough to stop the blackberry. He has been using a wick to go through the area with tree and blackberry killer, and he dabs the emerging suckers.

    I didn't like the idea but then I can also his point that he doesn't have many options. It would only be very small localised applications for a short period of time before cover grew over the area, and then there was no longer a problem, so no further applications.

    I wondered if I could have dealt with the problem in any other way, and realistically I don't think that I could have in his circumstances.. It makes me wonder about when I get my own property what problems there may be to deal with...

    It's all very well to stand on the moral ground and say that you will never use such things under any circumstances, but if you can't grow your own food to support yourself and have to buy most of your food in..... Do you then to drive miles to work everyday working for someone else because you can't use your own land for any commercial purpose.... You can't then turn your land into lush permaculture gardens and food forest, an example to other, to try and promote people growing their own food in a sustainable manner, to try and stop widespread use of chemicals..

    You know, I think that if I am ever in a position like his I would have to do a similar thing. Begrudgingly, and as much as I would hate to be near any poison like that, I would have to do it myself, as I wouldn't trust anyone else..

    Well thats leaving myself open... :?

    However, I should justify my point by saying that this would only be under extreme circumstances like I have mentioned when other methods have failed.... And sorry Tezza, but the blackberry in his situation is a weed...... Theres no other word for it..

    Joel
     
  19. baldcat

    baldcat Junior Member

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    I'm witt you Joel... I'd do excatly the same thing.
     
  20. Lolly

    Lolly Junior Member

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    OMG.. my eyes are dry and my brain is fried from reading this long long thread.

    I too dislike the use of chemicals, yet I dye my hair and use dishwashing detergent. I do draw the line though at drinking roundup. :?

    We are very close to getting our dream acres and although I intensely dislike the idea of using anything chemical on the property I have read the views of everyone with extreme interest. Who knows what we will come up against? It would be wonderful to be able to look at the blackberries (which fortunately we don't have) or any other difficult plant to control with the view that it's a coloniser and has a place in the ecosystem, but as Earthbound pointed out what is to be done when you need the space for your own nourishment? As yet I do not know. I would dearly love to retain my rose coloured glasses but I suspect they will need to be removed the minute we take possession of our land.

    Pardon the pun, I will keep you posted.. :)
     

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