Vegetarian, Ecotarian, Permatarian or Permavegan?

Discussion in 'General chat' started by Grahame, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    36
    For years I called myself a vegetarian, on account of the fact that I didn't eat meat. When people asked me why (a strange enough thing in itself) it was very difficult to give a single line response. I was vegetarian for a number of reasons, spiritual, ethical and environmental.

    But now I have a different world view and so I figure it is time for a new label ;) ...

    I can no longer claim to be a vegetarian because I now eat 'surplus' roosters and would probably stretch that to pigs and other critters if and when they become part of my permaculture system.

    This is a move away from concentrating wholly on the individual animal to a more holistic view of the the 'food system'. Eating a small number of animals makes more sense to me now spiritually, environmentally and ethically.

    I reckon an Ecotarian, might be someone who consumes sustainable, ethically and environmentally sensitive foods. As a general rule they would be largely vegetarian, eating good quality well produced foods preferably from local sources. In many ways a city-based Ecotarian would probably eat less meat than their rural counterparts. There would perhaps be a greater proportion of these in the cityscape.

    A Permatarian would for the most part have a vegetarian diet of fresh locally grown foods from permaculture sources, supplemented by surplus animals. All parts of the animal are used and/or returned to the system. The amount of meat in the diet of a Permatarian is also determined by where they live, some climates necessitate that they eat more meat than others.

    So while I'm not there yet, I am willing to declare myself a Permatarian in conversion.

    Any other Permatarians out there? Or some Ecotarians?
     
  2. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    Permatarian is good if you can be bothered explaining it each time you use it ;-p. Nice opportunity to spread the Pc word though.

    How about Mostly Vegetarian? which references the late, great Douglas Adams (Mostly Harmless), and Michael Pollan (eat food, not too much, mostly plants).
     
  3. Ludi

    Ludi Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Messages:
    779
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    A Permatarian diet might be mostly carnivorous if meat is easier to obtain in the environment than plants. For instance in my region it is relatively difficult to grow vegetables, whereas deer grow easily on their own, both the native White Tail Deer and exotic Axis Deer. So an appropriate Permatarian diet here on my patch of land might be venisonism, not vegetarianism! I think it's important to remember not everyone lives in the same kind of ecosystem, and what is an appropriate diet for one place might not be for another. :)
     
  4. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    For me it's rabbits. Overrun with the buggers.
     
  5. Ludi

    Ludi Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Messages:
    779
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    I understand it might be dangerous to be a rabbitarian, because wild rabbits have such low body fat you can actually starve to death if you try to get most of your calories from them! Lots of protein, not enough calories.
     
  6. annette

    annette Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2010
    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Grahame I can't think of any "arian" or "an" to encompass it all adequately. So I'll just say you are smart. :)
     
  7. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    I think that's a myth Ludi. Comes from a story about Native Americans who became malnourished when eating a starvation diet of rabbit. But no self-repecting permie (or Indian!) would eat like that unless they were also starving. I cook my rabbit in butter ;-)
     
  8. Ludi

    Ludi Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Messages:
    779
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    You're absolutely right, pebble. Any decent permie (or native) will have a diverse diet. :)
     
  9. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    I'm curious how rabbits manage in cold climates with such low body fat. Maybe the ones who live in hard winters are fatter?
     
  10. Ludi

    Ludi Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Messages:
    779
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    That's a really interesting question. Seems like they would have to be fatter...

    Our deer are looking pretty darn skinny, especially the White Tails. The Axis always look kind of chunky. There's open season on the Axis. Unfortunately my husband doesn't hunt yet though he's planning to try for a deer this Fall. I get to do the butchering. Should be a challenge.....I also feel like I should try to tan the hide but I'm not sure I'm up for such a big project (even though the native deer are small, the process seems daunting).....But, it would be interesting to tan a hide and make moccasins....
     
  11. mischief

    mischief Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    94
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    s/e
    Location:
    South Waikato New ZeLeand
    Climate:
    Cool mountain
    I like this, Grahame.

    I would like to think that I am trying to become a permatarian too. (I find this word rolls off my tongue alot more easily than permaculturist).

    I dont eat alot of meat either at the moment,but it seems that when I do I eat quite alot of it and am trying to get a continuous source from someone I know locally.
    Problem with my choosen source, is that alot of others want his beef too.
    We learned that the local home kill butcher is making his fantastic salamis again. We need to have a talk with him to see if they are the traditional type that dont need to be kept in the freezer til you use them-cutting power consumption. Who knows, we may be able to eventually get rid of the freezer all together,which was one of my main goals.
    I have been idly considering how else this could be preserved rather than freezing,dehydrating some of it? Can you smoke beef like is done with hams????

    So far we get local milk -I feel really proud of myself for actually getting around to doing this and the difference this one action has had on my rubbish bag is quite startling.I didnt really take note of how many 2 litre containers went in the rubbish bag,til this winter when I couldnt get any farm fresh milk. I re-use one lidded bucket every week instead.Unfortunately, it is plastic.

    Home made cheese,butter(which I dont use alot of but my mum loves cream in her breakfast and coffeee,yogurt. You should have tasted the cream cheese I made this week.Fast and easy and used less power and time to make and so many ways to eat it and an absolute taste sensation! I just had lunch at a friends and took some with me.We had them on crackers with her homemade chutney, made mostly from vegies she had grown.I have put an order in for her chutney so from this year no more bought chutney either.
    Now need to learn how to make crackers too.

    Eggs and vegies,herbs n spices and afew types of fruit,all from the garden.I'm bribing my neighbours now with fresh eggs now that the girls are starting to lay more, in the hopes that they will not be quite so annoyed when the rooster crows during the day.
    I noticed he does this when he gets bored and found yet another use for frost clothe-tying it to the driveway gate and pinning it to the ground with afew planks of wood lying idle-they wont go past it and neither will the neighbours dog, so I can now beg that they let him out of their garage to run around without being concerned that he might munch the chooks roaming loose in my back yard.
    Just need to come up with a solution to protect my seedlings from them...the old chicken mesh that used to be on their dome comes to mind....

    I am finding it easier to get people to go organic with their vegie gardens by letting them know that permaculture can give them ideas of how to do things so they dont have to rely on chemicals and now have built up quite afew examples of what people are doing around here.
    This approach seems to be more easily accepted, epecially when I point out that these ideas can be applied to areas other than just food production.
     
  12. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Great stuff Mischief!

    I know I've said it before but I really get no greater satisfaction than homemade. I love the jars of jam just made, cooling on the bench, or the quince paste or apple cheese drying on a rack. Fried eggs on home made sour dough anytime I desire it. An antipasto with some pickled garlic, pickled onions etc.

    Every time I add something new to my repertoire it give me immense pleasure. I'm waiting for some cabbage and a good croc pot to have a go at some sauerkraut. The possibilities are endless.

    Might use some of my preserve lemons this week :) and I've got some apple and beetroot chutney maturing too.

    It is so exciting to be a new-born permatarian.
     
  13. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    5,925
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I want to be a permatarian too. Hmmm mentioning preserved lemons has given me inspiration about what to do with the chicken (free range organic local) that I have planned for dinner.... Moroccan chicken at my place tonight.
     
  14. BlueSkyBee

    BlueSkyBee Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think I'm beginning to fit into one of these categories, I don't eat a lot of meat, I do get 1/2 a beast from relatives (beef) to feed my 3 ravenous sons, the animals have pretty lovely lives until the homekill butcher turns up and quietly they go down. I'm much more in favour of supporting homekill than the awful abbatoir system.

    As I love eating chook, but don't want to support large scale unethical chook farming, I'm getting my own to grow, kill and eat.

    I'm a bit squeemish about the killing thing, but humanely done after a good permaculture life is definitely the way to go!

    I'm reading Joel Salatins book "Folks this ain't normal" and he makes a very good case for the necessary place of animals in permaculture, and of course, kelling and eating simply being a part of the overall system, I think my overly sensitive side is being hardened up by reality!!

    Brilliant book BTW, I really highly recommend it.
     
  15. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Farm manager/ educator
    Location:
    Hunter Valley New South Wales
    Home Page:
    Climate:
    warm temperate - some frost - changing every year
    I will be there in a minute. Cute topic Gman - though I avoid lables as much as possible. I was at a field day the other week and a joke was told about a child raised as a vegererian and leaning across the table to grap a chop and devouring it. Now if I was a vego I would have been offended. And where would that have gotten me?
     
  16. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    Yeah, but to be fair, a child would lean across the table and grab and devour all sorts of things that are not good to eat (depending on age).
     
  17. permasculptor

    permasculptor Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    727
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    yes Permatarian is a good label Graham .
     
  18. mischief

    mischief Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    94
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    s/e
    Location:
    South Waikato New ZeLeand
    Climate:
    Cool mountain
    PP, I thought you were a vego!??
    Ludi, thats actually a really pertinent point-having a climate that grows great venison as apposed to great vegies.
    My mouth is watering at the thought of venison, OMG!!!
    Am I a carnivore after all hiding behind a compost bin?
     
  19. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Farm manager/ educator
    Location:
    Hunter Valley New South Wales
    Home Page:
    Climate:
    warm temperate - some frost - changing every year
    I was till I gave up labels mischief
    We are in the process of a rethink along the lines Grahame mentioned - to do with the proper use of protien sources. Here on the farm we have an extra cow from the dairy that needs using each year.
     
  20. philbert

    philbert Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Here's a thought - how about "human".

    I'd suggest we've strayed from only strayed from our true nature over the last fifty to one hundred years or so.
     

Share This Page

-->