Apologies to anyone who is disgusted by my topic... m wife for one is less than enthusiastic about my interest in this subject. :lol: Years ago I read an article by Jackie French where she talks about using urine as a herbicide or as a fertiliser. If you apply it directly I guess it is a fertiliser, whereas if you store it for a while it chemically changes and becomes a herbicide. It is a long time since I read the article, and I have forgotten a lot of the details. What I am wondering is, what is the actual chemical change that takes place, and how long does it take? I did a little experiment with my own urine recently and I think I didn't wait long enough because I didn't really have a plant kill. If anything I guess I fertilised the darn thing. Can anyone here help me understand what is going on with this?
:lol: :lol: Interesting, Richard! From experience, when I lived out in the woods I found that repeated direct urination on Himalayan Blackberry will kill it! (takes a while) Salt content? Haven't experimented with storage...does it turn to ammonia after time? :lol: :lol: 9anda1f
apparently if you store it for more than 24 hours it turns amonic and can be applied as a weedicide. not a disgusting topic realy just think about the amount of good drinking water used to flush the stuff now that's disgusting. me i use it as fertiliser, vinegar is a good weedicide. len
There is an area in the 'garden' where beer drinkers and wine tasters go to urinate. It usually goes brown to die away but, not long after, it grows exceptionally well, as if fertilised. It appears to me that too much fertiliser is applied therefore it looks that things have died but eventually they will respond. I guess urine contains nutrients and plants will respond to these. I have no idea what happens to urine if you keep it for a few days.
hey plumtree, get 'em to pee in a different place each time, just like any fertiliser you can o/d with urine as well. len
Richard, I am disgusted...... :shock: Happy New Year. From my experience it is entirely possible to kill seedlings with any foliar fertiliser - if its is too strong but as for urine being a herbicide, I would put that firmly in the *cough* [bullshit] category. Years ago, an odd friend of mine peed on a patch of couchgrass to try and kill it. It eventually changed colour [3 months??] and may have been working until it rained. The couch then responded marvellously and outgrew the control area [the rest of his ''lawn''.... ]. Maybe it needs a surfactant :idea: . I will however concede that it may work on the principle of 'too much of a good thing'. I have heard americans griping over the fact that dog urine will kill patches of lawn but cannot quantify this. In my time though I have pee'd on a lot of weeds and cannot ever remember killing any. cheers floot
Yeah... It may just be a matter of too much of a good thing. However Jackie's article, as my foggy memory has it, said that the same amount of fresh pee would be fertiliser whereas after being stored it becomes a herbicide. So, I assume that there is some significant chemical change going on. Floot, as for it being bullshit, I have actually, sometime ago, killed a patch of grass with one application of about a gallon of old urine (I am kind of embarassed about why and how this happened, and it was um, not intentional, and it was well before I read Jackie's article and before I was ever potentially interested in the differenece between stored or fresh pee...). 9and1alf, it may well be partly due to salt content. My chemistry is so poor I just hate it. From what I have read, we urinate to get to rid of the ammonia in our bloodstream, which is a byproduct of the process of creating proteins. The liver converts the ammonia to urea though, because ammonia in concentration is toxic. I suppose the word urine is closely related to urea... Now, I don't understand the difference between between urea and ammonia. Can anyone help? They are both fertilisers right? Is it that ammonia is soluble and urea is like an organic slow release? Glad noone here seems to be too peturbed by the subject. You are all beautiful, highly evolved people.
Ok, I am off to find a jar and will report back in one week. Richard, I had never heard of the 'slow release' thing with urea so googled it and found this article interesting. https://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/agr/agr69/agr69.htm It happens to discuss urea -v- ammonium. I have used urea once. I won a 1kg bag of urea at auction and threw it over my lawn, mainly to get rid of it, and it had a huge impact on where the urea landed. The lawn shot up amazingly but I dont have a lawn for aesthetics. I use my lawn for animal food, dust suppression and to provide lawn clippings for mulch & composting etc. floot
When I was a kid we had pots under the beds and Dad would store some and use it as a weed killer and used the fresh urine diluted as a fertilizer on the fruit trees, but when the sewerage came we didn't have the pots so... I'm pretty sure it is the ammonia in urine, as Dad then used to get rid of weeds with sulfate of ammonia.
Richard! You are always thinking! I like that! I am a TOTAL pee fan, and it has come to be one of my favorite natural things for the garden! Farmers in China have been using it for centuries, it's free, it's natural, it's always available as long as you are farming! :lol: If countries with sewage problems would realize this, their neighborhoods would be much cleaner and much more agriculturally productive! (along with composting toilets, but that's another entry!) The reason pee kills plants is its high nitrogen content, it burns them, not just weeds, even plants you want, if it's undiluted. It's also salty, but about the same saltiness as cow manure, so just keep it in mind. Also, if one drinks a lot of coffee, it can be even more acidic and could contain caffeine, which can also kill some insects that can't handle the jag! I just put it in an old milk jug with a lid, and it works fine. But if you dilute it, 5 parts water to 1 part urine, it's just right. I make up a big garbage can of lots of good things, epsom salts, water, urine, molasses, powdered milk, and you can even suspend a pantyhose leg of compost in it, and let it steep, compost tea! it's fabulous stuff! It comes out at just about the right rate for use, so you don't need to store it. If you want cardboard to break down faster, soak it with pee (nitrogen breaks down wood faster), it can break down the heavy vine and stick materials in compost piles faster. And it has been a Godsend for deterring gophers! I was at my wit's end trying to stop the buggers, and finally I thought, hey, I'll just start thinking like an animal, and leave my Get-Lost! signal down every hole I find. Bingo, they fill up that hole with dirt (little underground tractor action) and they move on. And then the soil is improved as well. My orchard and roses are in much better shape! I rarely come in contact with it. It eventually does get bacteria in it, but compost already has bacteria in it that we shouldn't be handling near our noses, eyes, mouths and fingers, but it's what the plant roots needs, so having it around is no more dangerous. Just use the same gloves, cleanup routine you always do. If you want to kill weeds, and you don't want anything growing back there, use vinegar. But if you use urine, even if it's strong at first and kills, it eventually dilutes and makes the ground more fertile, so be sure you don't make the soil between stepping stones, for example, too good a place for weeds!
Thanks sweetpea. So, you don't think there is anything to storing the pee? It will just as effective used undiluted fresh as it will be undiluted stored for a period of time?
Richard, about storing pee, depending on the size of your garden, you probably have enough fresh stuff, so you don't have to store it. But I have stored it, because now I've got my husband in on this, and he likes the idea of contributing. he's also the biggest scent out on the field, so the other animals probably tremble in fear by now, I've spread it all over the place :lol: It just gets more and more full of bacteria if you store it, which you don't want to come in contact with it, don't let it splash into your eyes. for example. But I have stored it in those white plastic milk cartons out in the hot sun, and I think that kills off some of the bacteria. That may or may not be any improvement for the plants, but it's safer to use. plants want a lot of bacteria, so it's for our safety I would use the fresh stuff. the more you use it, the more you will recognize, by scent, what stage it is at! As long as it's used in conjunction with compost, I think you will always have enough nitrogen and the other compounds of healthy soil.
i've always been of the school that urine should be used as fresh as possible in the garden generally within 24 hours of collecting it. and if you store it over that period then it starts to go amonic and that is when if applied on the foliage it is supposed to be a weedicide. i often empty mine twice a day, and i mix it with any other used water i may have so i can spread it around more plants, keeps the ferel cats outa the agrden and all use it to deter a fox from digging up the canies i was burying as fertiliser. len
Urine as weedicide Hi all, Lets not forget that the ancient Roman's kept old urine and wash their togas in (and other clothing I guess) as a bleach. Greenly Sue
Sweetpea, thanks for the chemistry! I never was very keen on pretzels! Susan, those Romans, eh?! :shock:
Urine as a Fertiliser Urine is sterile when it leaves the body Urine has also been historically used as an antiseptic. In times of war, when other antiseptics were unavailable, urine, the darker the better, was utilized on open wounds to kill bacteria. pH The pH of urine is close to neutral, i.e. 7, but can normally vary between 4.5 and 8. Strongly acidic or alkaline urine may be a symptom of a disease https://www.punchandus.com/article/1005-pee.html So why are we frightened of it? https://www.answers.com/topic/human-urine In a country like Australia we should all have "Gusunders" (goes-under-the-bed). Why use precious water to flush valuable fertiliser out to sea? I read recently of archeologist's discovering ancient human settlement sites by soil testing for phosphorus. Where people pee their is likely to be an archaeological sites! Quote: https://forums.hypography.com/watercoole ... ht=Chinese https://www.springerlink.com/content/km386u8967256354/
Re: urine as herbicide Weeds don't like boiling water (So you could put your Pee in the Jug/kettle? would you wife approve? )
Ha! No, I don't think so... She's very broad minded, but I think she would draw the line there. :lol: