Unmutual, you are the one wearing the tinfoil hat. I have backed up my argument well for those who care to check out the links I provided. Annette is clearly paying attention to what is going on around her. The federal government in the U.S. is supposed to protect certain freedoms of its citizens, but be very limited in its power so it can't abuse the citizens. Our government has been crossing that line more boldly and more frequently over the years. For example, every "Executive Order" that has been issued by every U.S. president is unconstitutional. Only Congress has the power to pass laws. Presidents do not. Only Congress has the constitutional right to coin money, but private bankers, called the Federal Reserve, have coined it since 1913, another unconstitutional act, and a very big one with devastating consequences that we are now experiencing in the economy. The list goes on and on. We Americans have been sleep walking for a long time. It's time for us to wake up before our country is gone. Our schools are used as tools for the government to indoctrinate our children. Their purpose is not really to educate. That's why we are so ignorant about our own laws, among many other things. Read a book or two by John Taylor Gatto for plenty of evidence to back that up. Here is a very good article he wrote with some of that evidence in it. https://4brevard.com/choice/Public_Education.htm And some more articles he wrote. https://www.preservenet.com/theory/Gatto.html Here you can read his entire book titled, The Underground History of American Education. This book, and all of his writings, are really about the education systems around the world. They're all basically the same in their end goals. https://johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/index.htm
Well, call me uniformed and ignorant, but I don't waste a moment of my life worrying about world domination conspiracy theories being planned in back offices and secret underworld dens by the illuminati, the US government, aliens, the World Bank, or any other stuff that fires up my personal BS meter. When you find me with my eyes glazed over under the serfdom of the elite overlords harnessing the masses for their personal world domination plan then you can say 'told you so'.
Well said mousey - me, I just want to get through the coming weekend and hope the Mayan calendar is wrong then I can do some prepping for the up coming zombie apocalypse
Whilst I don't subcribe to wild conspiracy theories, I think every piece of law and policy that affects our lives should be scrutinised in view of how it could affect our individual and collective lives. That doesn't mean that every mass shooting is a government plot to take away the 2nd amendment rights for us citizens, but it could. Best to keep an eye on what those in power are doing, keeping informed. Study history and learn about the burning of the Reishtag that allowed Hitler to take total power and the Bay of Tonkin incident will tell you that governments will do nasty things to justify their own means and ends. When you work for government developing policy and law you come to realise Government passes law for two reasons. 1. To protect their power base and stay in government. 2. To protect the revenue base and national interest (which we may or not agree with). Permaculture includes being self sufficient and being prepared for what may come. I think it is important to keep an open mind.
annette - you appear to live in Queensland and not America, consequently the second amendment doesn't apply to you so I wonder why you bring it up or was it just a straw-man argument? I work for the federal government and yes, a lot of decisions are made to support a power base, it is the nature of the Westminster political system and the second point is governed by Keynesian economics. If you want to rally against the machine get into politics and/or economics. Use the system to change the system, anything else is just pissing in the wind. I am not trying to insult either of you but give me ANY concept and I will be able to provide speculation, hearsay and assumption to support it. On the other hand, a discriminating mind based in science putting forward a thesis for review and feedback is the framework that PM, and I would assume this format, is based on. Therefore, my comment is based on why these non-substantiated hypotheses sprouted by intellectual pigmy's like Griffin, Beck and Jones that are not relevant to PM are being discussed here? And with that I withdraw from giving this conversation any more oxygen. Smile, life's a nice place
You asked about home gardening. I answered. Historically, when things get tough, people start gardening and the government suggests it in the first place. In America, there is a branch of the government that helps people grow food at home and will even come out to your home to teach you for free. There are free classes all around run by these people and they even have websites with all this useful information. The only organizations in the US that seems to hate gardening, at least in the front yard, are Home Owners Associations and a few towns. Luckily, you have to knowingly buy into a HOA when you're choosing your house. Unfortunately though, you have to do research to find out the rules in each town. So no, the evidence is against you as far as government making home gardening illegal. The rest of the stuff you prophesied are merely symptoms of a collapsing civilization. As resources begin to thin, people start doing crazy things. Our resources are thinning and the crazy things are only going to get worse. Oddly enough, it's just the people with vested interests in the old infrastructure that are worried. I'd rather spend my efforts to provide for my family(and immediate community if at all possible) than to waste those same efforts in keeping a dying civilization on life support.
Resources aren't diminishing, that's another manufactured problem to justify forcing us all to do with less and less, and convincing us that it's the only way. It's a huge scam. I found a great interview with John Taylor Gatto on Youtube for those of you who want to know what is really happening in this world. You've got to see this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkT0k57tAHo
Hi NGComm I was making an observation from a world viewpoint. I perhaps should have put us as US meaning United States. We can learn from other countries and what goes on there so we do not repeat here. yes? My points regarding the burning of the Reischtag and the Gulf of Tonkin incident are historical facts, they are not concepts, hearsay or assumptions. Both incidents changed the lives of millions of people for the worse. Both perpetrated by elected governments. There are many more examples. All I am saying is that instead of just swallowing everything governments tell us, we should question. For what purpose, is this just political spin, what effect will this policy or law have? Remember the children overboard saga? Governments can lie. I don't agree with everything Roy says, but it is his right to question. I don't know Griffin, Beck or Jones. cheers Annette
Not funny... [video=vimeo;21783249]https://vimeo.com/21783249[/video] This is still a resource, not water, but plastic. :-(
Yes - but where did the stuff that is used to make plastic come from and are we running out of that? (Answer - fossil fuels and yes)
Tell me specifically what resources are in limited supply? Oil? Prove it. Nobody has yet, and even if they could, there are already other sources of energy that could replace it. Water? No, it's just used wastefully. Water does not leave our atmosphere. The same quantity is always here. So tell me, what?
lim·it·ed /ˈlimitid/ Adjective Restricted in size, amount, or extent; few, small, or short: "a limited number of places are available". You keep on using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Water is here but is it really? Without silly amount of energy for pumping, transport and purification. How much is left? really clean water from stream, even rain water is no longer drinkable in some places. Eco wanted to be sarcastic, my bad English, I'm sorry.
So you'll accept what some whack job tells you about government control, but when it comes down to something like non-renewable resources which is common knowledge, you think it's a conspiracy theory? I'm beginning to wonder why you're even on a permaculture forum, since permaculture is partially based on conventional resources running out.
Polluted water can be cleaned, it's not gone. By the way, what major national or international plan have you heard of to prevent or clean the polluted water? Water pollution is a major problem, I agree, but where are the government solutions for it? What pollutes water anyway? Pharmaceuticals, chemicals, and chemical fertilizers are the major contributors. Again, where is the plan to prevent pollution from those sources? There isn't one, and that should cause you to think a little deeper about the whole environmental movement. "Carbon" is the BIG environmental polluter in the media, which gives the globalists the excuse they need to enforce a reduction in oil consumption, which halts the growth of commerce, which weakens the economy, which makes more people dependent on government handouts, which further weakens the economy. Do you really believe that those are just unintended consequences? Well, they are very much intended. Why is it so hard to believe that those in positions of power would do such a thing? History is full of examples when they have done so. As far as pumping and purifying water, you're assuming that there are no technologies available other than what is available to the public. That's mostly what black projects in the military are about, advanced technology. Only it's used to control and kill people, to perpetuate the power of those in control, not to benefit the average person. Plus, think of the billions of dollars to be lost by a company (or an industry for that matter) if a new company comes out with a new invention that makes theirs obsolete. They have a powerful motive to prevent that new invention from ever being available, if they can't buy it themselves and then bury it. This scenario has happened many times as well, and books have been written that detail some of these stories. I'm still waiting on the "facts" about us running out of oil or water. The idea that oil originates from plants and animals is just a theory, not a proven fact. And if I'm wrong, show me the indisputable evidence.
I agree but you can not claim that the resources are available on the basis of their physical presence. How many people today who lack water, possess energy and technology for its refinement. And it is a fact that you do not seem to want to see. You're looking at the problem with narrow view of someone who lives in the so-called the developed world (technology can solve anything), and it's a smaller part yet. That technology can solve the problems is still the theory, and that nature can solve problems is an axiom. By the way I believe in Soviet geologists abiogenic theory on oil. We are off topic.
This is beginning to feel like politics and/or religion. One day I'll remember to not even get involved in these kinds of threads because they're so pointless.
No pakanohida I fell out of my chair laughing too. At first because Roy has obviously posted this thread on the wrong website and then after reading more, because I realise his whole thread has to be a gee up. He has got to be taking the p... Out of us
