Ultimate Energy Sources

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Farside, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

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    Asking for more info would go something like "please supply more info so I can further the discussion" though cat got ya tongue"" does have a way about it and "where is your truth may be construed as please provide more info.

    To me it seems there may be a better way but better leave it there or Eco will think I'm picking on you.
     
  2. NGcomm

    NGcomm Junior Member

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    She may still be on the floor laughing her head off as she thought your comment was so funny..but truth, not really as I did point out that nearly all the things you noted don't happen anymore. So better to say, "these things used to happen and then citizens and bureaucracy got wise enough to stop doing that specific set of silly things and consequently my rant was about the past and not the present"

    ..just a thought...
     
  3. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    well where is MITH's opinion or valuable advice, simply having a good belly laugh bu oneself is no answer.

    what i said is in fact that simple.

    and i can't at present relate to what you are saying ngcomm or what about:
    ngcomm said - "these things used to happen and then citizens and bureaucracy got wise enough to stop doing that specific set of silly things and consequently my rant was about the past and not the present"

    your rant?
    what past?
    what present?
    your rant about?

    len
     
  4. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day All

    *** Warning, rant coming up ***

    Huge topic, and all bitch-fighting aside, there is only one ultimate free energy source (at least as far as our solar system is concerned), and that is the sun. Given that sun is approximately half way through its life cycle, best estimates are that we have about another 5-billion years (give or take a few million years) left to work out how to best harness its energy. How do you reckon we'll go? My guess is that we'll fuck it up, just like we have most other things - soil, water, atmosphere, etc. - but, I live in hope.

    In terms of harnessing the direct heat of the sun, solar thermal (as our good friend PP suggests) is our best bet. In terms of harnessing the indirect energy of the sun (i.e. wind as a by product of sun-induced weather factors), then small, local, community owned wind farm initiatives, servicing individual bioregions is the go (as our other good friend permasculpter suggests). People getting 'sick' from wind turbines ('infrasound', 'blade flicker', etc.)? Evidence, where is it? I've yet to see any from credible, peer-reviewed, scientific sources. The only people I know who get 'sick' from wind energy, are those that miss out on the socio-economic streams that their neighbours are tapping into. These are the same people that become green (i.e. 'sick') with envy.

    Ultimately (to borrow a word from the OP), however, the best source of energy is that which we 'catch and store' from within one's own community. A bloke by the name of Holmgren has written quite a bit about this concept. Perhaps you have heard of him? He calls it Principle 2. Perhaps we might all be best served by remembering that this is a permaculture forum, and as such one need not look too far afield (the search box in the top, right-hand corner is a good place to start) for the answers to many of the questions one should care to ask.

    'Energy' comes in many forms - electricity being the quickest that comes to mind. But think of all the wasted energy - in terms of time and effort - that some of you have expended in this thread by bitching and moaning about your fellow woman, or man. We are only on this planet for a short time, people. Individually, as well as a species. So play nice.

    *** End rant ***

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  5. Finchj

    Finchj Junior Member

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    On cats and birds:

    If the study this article talks about is anywhere near correct, 100 million dead birds is an order of magnitude less than reality:

    On energy, I'm rooting for Daniel Nocera and his team with their artificial leaf. Here is one of his latest presentations. He says that whereas before the leaf needed electrical input (preferably from solar) to perform electrolysis, their latest incarnation only requires that the leaf be exposed to sunlight.

    If this thing works (and costs) as presented, I think it'll usher in a new era. My only worry is that if we are able to produce neigh unlimited amounts of energy, we will ignore the deeper roots of anthropogenic climate change. I think society will see this tech as a green light for consumerism.

    And we will continue ripping ecosystems into pieces to fuel our desires.

    But, thats a risk I'd be willing to take if this technology works as presented.
     
  6. NGcomm

    NGcomm Junior Member

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    Sorry it confused you len. I was pointing out that what you were saying (e.g. DU as aeroplane ballast etc.) may of happened in the past but was not happening now and I postulated that the reason things changed was that society woke up to the bad practices. If you accept that then I was suggesting you learn to state that along the lines of "This is what used to happen" and your range against the machine would sound a bit more relevant.

    But then again, we always have Marko to come in and save the day with a well constructed opinion. I apologise for mine not being up to his standards.

    And Marko, if you call that a rant you need more practice at it - I'll read them :)
     
  7. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    Thanks for sourcing, finch. I originally out millions in my post but was worried about being incorrect so downgraded it. I'm so happy to see that the numbers are in the billions and not hundreds of thousands /sarcasm.

    A quick search looking for turbine deaths didn't net the articles I wanted, or remembered, but this is a nice quote:

     
  8. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    if there are 1 million cats and 50% kill 1 native critter a year that is 500,000 animals killed that is bad enough and flying into buildings and rooves makes it less tolerable, but just because there is a feel good attached to wind power(ugly things would rather have trees) then that makes it more intolerable, renewable supporters are supposed to be environmentally switched on but if the object they love kills some critters stifsky hey? what about road kill? is that acceptable. trees don't add to wild life deaths.

    that bit about used uranium stuff came out of a doco' i saw yesterday, and as far as i know the jets they were scrapping are the same types still flying, but if you have somewhere that supports you story point us there please.

    i've never heard of the practice before so guess most of the world would be in the dark, so where then would not have been any uproar to force change.

    len
     
  9. Farside

    Farside Junior Member

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    I disagree with that statement.
    My work places me in contact with all sorts of interesting characters...
    People who build machines that use functional MRI fields to implant and remove memory.
    People who build voice jammers, that remove your ability to speak coherently using nothing but acoustic techniques and nuances of the human brain.
    People who have experience using harmonic acoustic frequencies to alter physiological functions, human emotions, and physical properties of materials.

    The disproving you speak of is probably the results released by the industry itself where the equipment was not actually sensitive to the frequencies involved (the sensitivity of the electronics rolled off at around 80 Hz).

    It reminds me of the medical industry in regards to organ harvesting. They don't administer aesthetic during an organ harvest procedure. Studies have shown that the brain dead patient exhibits a biochemical response to the trauma that is indicative of the pain response. Yet they still refuse to administer aesthetics because no study has been done to show that a person with no detectable brain activity experiences pain. When asked why no study has been done, the response is that the subject is brain dead, and so can not experience pain.

    This sort of circular argument leads nowhere. Testing for the existence of something using a device that is designed to detect something else is just plain misleading.
    I remember the outcry in N.Z. during the early 90's about how ads on TV were so much loader than the programming. The industry denied it (as if everyone was imagining it) and went so far as to ave an "expert" "show" us, using electronic equipment hooked up to a TV, that the volume did not increase one bit.

    Anyone with any electronics education saw immediately that the device was an oscilloscope, and the signal he was measuring was the carrier signal onto which audio is frequency modulated. In short, he was deliberately misleading the public using "science".

    When any industry has an agenda, they will fake "scientific" data to suit their ends.
     
  10. Farside

    Farside Junior Member

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    Thanks for the clarification. So we should be able to see these processes in action by looking for areas of massive die off that is covered quickly. The Taupo eruption would be a good candidate. The Yellowstone super eruption is older so the process would be more advanced. The Aral sea could be a good candidate too.

    Your theory sounds plausible, and there are areas on earth where massive die-offs have occurred within recent geological time. I'll look into it more...
     
  11. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    I have but one thing to add to all this.

    https://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/feb/12/printed-solar-glass-panels-oxford-photovoltaics
     
  12. Farside

    Farside Junior Member

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    Sorry about the delay.
    Here:
    https://www.naturalnews.com/038999_radioactive_waste_recycled_silverware.html
    and here in case you regard naturalnews.com as not legit:
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwor...really/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
    That one is an oped.
    This one actually quotes a politician:
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/depar...rap-metal-back-into-consumer-products/5320955
    And here is what the congressman has to say:
    https://markey.house.gov/press-release/markey-questions-doe’s-radioactive-recycling-proposal

    Just reading these articles, one comes to realise how much spin gets applied on both sides, until nobody can be certain of the truth any more :-(
     
  13. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    farside,

    that is incredibly decieptfull and careless and show no humanity from those who rape our planet, many here certainly seem to support that echalon.

    and they hounded me when i saw in a doco' from the US where they use radioactive waste as ballast in tail sections of jets

    new roman myth vote coming inhumaity will no doubt continue, teh new bloke will know what the charter is, secularised australia will have no idea.

    that is incredible information thank you

    len
     
  14. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    paka' that hype theory has been floating around for at least a decade now, and not a single really producing pane of coloured glass on any high rise.

    simply no way to make and store renewable's that people can afford, below the wealthy set that is and they aren't interested in saving the planet they rape.

    len
     
  15. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    Len,
    I apologise for my earlier rudeness.

    In another facet of my life I am embroiled in the rhino anti-poaching efforts in South Africa where they are currently in a war (there is no other way to describe it now) against the most vile, barbaric and morally bankrupt people one could imagine. In recent days and weeks this war has escalated. I cannot begin to describe the cruelty, greed, corruption etc involved against the efforts of people all over the world striving for the protection of these magnificent animals. Sometimes the sheer helplessness one feels makes me bitter, twisted, angry, cynical and jaded.

    Which is all to say that in my dark times I shouldn't take my frustration out on others - no excuses - but I hope you would be kind enough to accept it as a mitigating factor.

    Peace to you.

    Regards,
    MITH
     
  16. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

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    [video][/video]
    How about this?
     
  17. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    MITH,

    you where forgiven the moment i said my piece, sad that others got involved but that is the wont of the group.

    i am dead set against cruelty to any native animals in particular but all animals in general, but one cannot hope to achieve anything there while humans are rated below animals. now i do not use exotic medicines derived from killing a natural animal, at one time a doc' put me on a rheumatism cream that i discovered was made from shark fins, i'd rather suffer thank you, those poor sharks thrown back alive with no fins or tail. and i also detest those victorian dairy farmers docking teh tails of their dairy cattle all no doubt to make their sorry lives a tad easier.

    and i also have no fondness to cat owners who simply won't control their killer pets.

    if you look deep enough you may find we have more in common that what may appear.

    take care

    len
     
  18. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum

    So it would seem that it's only marine life put under pressure from sediment that turns in to crude oil, not land creatures/plants. It doesn't require a large kill off, just a steady stream of death along with high pressure and the lack of oxygen. I guess technically crude oil is still being made as we speak, but we're extracting more than is being made. It took me a while to find a link that wasn't just a copy and paste of another link(I hate internet research sometimes).
     
  19. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Evidently you didn't read the date on the article.

    Tuesday 12 February 2013 12.05 EST

    You also didn't realize that this is a new material that has improved upon other works.

    There is a way to make renewable energy for cheap, but that in itself should be another thread starting with Solar & Wind energy.
     
  20. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Well, considering I have read articles of clandestine agencies monitoring facebook, forums, etc and are actively commenting against certain technologies and so on, I am not all that surprised. Heck, there is a permaculture forum I know where no one can speak about ethics, which is something America, or more accurately my American Politicians & International corporations need desperately.
     

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