Treated pine CCA in compost

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by Peter Clements, Aug 17, 2006.

  1. Peter Clements

    Peter Clements Junior Member

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    My compost heap contains mulch from our local greenwaste recycling centre which contains a small percentage of shredded CCA treated pine (Copper Chromated Arsenic)- also known as "pressure treated pine". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromated_copper_arsenate
    The mulch is mixed with soil in a large "heating" compost heap- do you think the composting process will neutralize the CCA pine, and could I use it for mulching a vegetable garden?
     
  2. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

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    Peter, I would be reluctant because of the arsenic, which also acts as a weedicide. I have seen CCA wood to be 'recommended' to make compost boxes/retainers out of because it wont rot down too quickly.

    Water can eventually leach most of the CCA out of the wood which then means it is in your topsoil - probably forever.

    Personally, I would give it a miss.

    I did find this:
    https://72.14.235.104/search?q=cach...pdf+CCA+compost+heat&hl=en&gl=au&ct=clnk&cd=7

    mike
     
  3. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


    Gee after having a quick un educated think..Ive come to the conclusion its a joke test Question 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)


    My Answer Is as Follows NO NINE NAH YUK>ARGH



    Tezza
     
  4. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day peter,

    i would very much doubt if the chemicals would break down in the compost heat or not.

    usually this material has to be treated akin to toxic material last i knew was warnings came with it saying not to use the sawdust in gardens or burn the left over bits in a fire.

    so not sure how the green waste people get it but reckon you may not go far to find some legislations saying that they should not be distributing or using it as compost.

    anyway either way not in my garden there's too much other way better stuff out ther to use.

    len :?
     
  5. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    no way is CCA safe

    I did a lot of research last year after our neighbours house burned down because he had big CCA treated verandah posts right round

    from memory a 4x2 12ft long has enough arsenic in it to kill 1600 people :shock:

    I wish someone would have the guts to ban the shit :evil: :evil:

    frosty
     
  6. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day frosty,

    apparently in the us of a and canada it is well on the way to being banned if not so already.

    australia and qld in general are dragging their feet on the matter, the alternative (whether it is any safer or not time will tell) just isn't available and never offered.

    i get the feeling we are a dumping ground for the stores of cca treated timber that must be around the place, we have a large mill cca treatment plant not far away right smack in the middle of suburbia, and a drive past will show you packed up cca timber for almost as far as the eye can see.

    would be interesting frosty to know what happened about the removal and disposal of that burnt cca timber and the ash. the way i see it cca is the new fibro blight in homes that will be considered too big a risk for anyone else to want to buy.

    we have home up with cca treated frames and trusses.

    len
     
  7. Peter Warne

    Peter Warne Junior Member

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    This is relevant to compost heaps but not CCA pine:

    What about cow manure from regular non-organic beef cattle. They have those little tags on their ears I think to prevent buffalo fly or something, and may or may not be drenched occasionally (the line down the spine system). A neighbour leaves his cows in our front paddocks for a few days each month, saves us spending to get the paddocks slashed and his cows get a free feed. They leave loads of lovely manure behind, which I have in the past used in compost heaps. Sometimes I wonder if that is wise.

    Any opinions?

    Peter
     
  8. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Everyone

    Here's what the Victorian Government has to say on the matter of CCA:

    "The general population is exposed to naturally occurring amounts of arsenic in soil, water and food. The main concerns about CCA treated timber relate to arsenic, which could be absorbed via the skin, inhaled when burnt or ingested. Over time, small amounts of chemicals may leach from CCA treated timber, but research has found that the amount of leached arsenic is less than that found in common foods. The human body can metabolise and eliminate small amounts of swallowed arsenic."

    A full account of this very interesting article can be found at the following:

    https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv ... senic_(CCA)_treated_timber?OpenDocument

    Concerning the cow manure issue, Peter:

    I too often wonder about the toxicity of non-organic cow manure. I've tried to temper my concerns by triple composting. That is once in a 'hot' compost, once in a 'cool', and then onto the worm-farm bed to allow these wonderful creatures to do their stuff. If anything toxic survives this process, then I guess my family, friends and I are doomed. I did get my compost material lab tested a few years back, no concerns from these results. Perhaps I should look at doing it again some time.

    Cheerio,

    Mark.
     
  9. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    well len itwas just dumped on the tip :evil:

    the morning after the fire I rang the shire and the DEP to amke surw it was disposed of safely ..........

    the shire considered it no threat.........the DEP was not overly concrened but did agree to ring the shire and insist they make sure it was sprinkled with water while onsite to stop dust traveling at not disposed of onsite

    in the end it was only sprinlkled because we ran big hoses over there and hubby turned them on each morning

    and no one rushed to clean upthe site ...... it was over a week before it was done

    meanwhile within 24 hours I got very sick and my hands went paralysed to where I have not been able to hand write ever since ..... where as I could before the fire

    neuropathy is a know effect of arsenic exposure

    and now the neighbour ( who didnt believe us as to the hazard ) has used his insurance payout to put in CCA pine fencing all round his block

    peter I would not even consider composting non organic cow manure ...... they worm them with some very toxic stuff plus use pour ons for lice etc ........ I wont even use blood and bone from non organic beasts and it amazes me that organic asoc allow its use on cert food


    frosty
     
  10. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Weve disscussed the "organic" solution at lenth in here....With biofarmag..

    Hes readily admited that most Organic growers ...at least those that hes dealt with........use loopholes in the legislation/rules ..so as to allow any spray, but only if they stopped using prior to the testing dates.....

    I think The whole concept Of "Organic" needs to be reapraised.....

    "organic" means to be able to be broken down isnt it?.....EG Grass must be organic because it decomposes.because its organic it breaks down...
    Rocks must be inorganic? they dont break down( not as readily as grass though)...

    So under those guide lines what does "ORGANIC"really mean


    (1) Thats its healthy To drink roundup OR

    (2) they use materials that break down via composting or worm activity


    Im Sorry but I just cant trust unresevedly that "organics" are a true healthy way to live...


    I prefere to call ALL my produce as Living food or alive food.....

    Principly because, i pick as i eat, not pick, then store for months or a year on end....

    Yes i garden "Organicly" BUT no i dont use ANY WHAT SO EVER chemicals AT ALL.....

    So what do the non chemical user call them selves????????



    Its a bit like saying Little johnny is a labour man...Due to his being born via the labour process......try telling him that:lol: :lol: :lol:


    Tezza
     
  11. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day tezza,

    when the call came out by us of a consumers because they had no faith in farmers being honest and selling product that had no chemical applications as organic merchandise it came to the administrator to mange it so they did what they do best the define something to suit the lowest common denominator so science gave them a legal definition of organic and that is "if it contains carbon it is therefore organic".

    when that happened that then told me that truely chemical free food sold at high premiums under the organic banner would become no more, the food sold under the banner will become more available because as someone who grows limes said their friend who has organic cert'n can use the same chem's as conventional growers just he has to withold for a longer period.

    i go with what mollison said "if we want our farmes to be honest and provide safe food then we need our farmers living in and growing for the community they live in" so along with that must go that we should again get used to eating only what's in season. that as i see it is the plan we should have, that way then the fresh food you get is then as fresh as can be.

    and along with the scientific definition of the term organic became a proprietry patented name that we gardeners are not supposed to use anymore. don't know how they can own a word that is a dereivitaive of original.

    len :)
     
  12. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    frosty,

    sounds like your council may be a bit tardy there?

    the last i heard was that like asbestos fibro cca treated timber had to be handled much the same for its disposal, so maybe at present they are getting away with it??

    len :?
     
  13. Peter Warne

    Peter Warne Junior Member

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    Interesting little story about CCA treated timber came my way at the local rural farm supply place (Rural Buyers) last week. I was asking if they had those 'chalk stick' like things called No-Rot, which you can put into a drilled hole in posts in a shed or house to protect them from termites. They didn't have the No Rot sticks, but some others where the same compounds, I think it was boron and flouride, is captured in little glass sticks. The sales guy seemd to know all about them and said the glass ones release their stuff slower, but over a longer period of time. He also said they were very adequate as termite protection, within the variable limits of how long they last, depending on humidity, moisture content of the timber and the severity of termite infestation. He also said that they should have been introduced 209 or 30 years ago, as a much safer anti-termite treatment than CCA, but that the timber industry had a vested interest in flogging CCA treated timber and managed to lobby them off the market all that time. Only for that reason they are still practically unknown and unused, apparently. You may have noticed that electricity poles these days are CCA treated AND have the anti-termite sticks in them.

    All this for what it's worth. It's very hard to know with these stories, but I wouldn't put it past the Aust timber trade to suppress a safer treatment if it suited them to sell a nasty one.

    Peter
     
  14. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day peter,

    that is very interesting in deed hey?

    they will do anything to protect the chemical industry i'm afraid.

    we have cca treated power poles in our neighbourhood, how can you tell if they also have those sticks in them???

    also when the poo does hit the fan with cca poles in the ground boy it is going to be one big headache, i do notice nowadays they have to take a the whole pole out when the take one away, not like with the untreated poles they cut them off below ground level.

    also noticed around here there are lot more metal and cement composit poles being used we don't see so many cca poles being used to replace others or put new poles in for one reason or the other.

    a lot of cca treated playground equipment is being pulled out of public schools at present, so there must be something in the wind??

    another thing i heard when i was up in the bush, farmers are buying those still good condition poles from the councils then grinding the outer green look off and using them as fence posts as everyone i spoke to knew to never use cca treated fence posts in rural, and they were burying the sawdust out of sight out of mind.

    when we were looking to buy we tried to stear clear of any cca on the property even fences (as they are shared responsibility), but with so many wooden fences around here and all cca hardwood we never had much choice, but we weren't going to touch anyplace that had extensions done with the stuff.

    len :shock:
     
  15. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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  16. Peter Warne

    Peter Warne Junior Member

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    Hi Len,
    You can tell the electricity poles have the rods in them by seeing the round end of the plastic plug which is screwed into the hole after the rod is placed there. On the elec poles its a much bigger plug - the disc on the end is about the size of a 20 cent coin from memory. It's usually seen about 1 or 2 feet from ground level, and sticking out a little. The home use version is much smaller, the top of the plug being about the size of a $2 coin.

    Peter
     
  17. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    thanks peter,

    just had a looki at the pole outside! maybe they don't do that up here?

    the only round thing visible is about 3 meters up the pole and about the size of a fifty cent piece at least, and it is some sort of silver metal with numbers stamped on but embedded into the pole.

    len :oops:
     

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