Too many politics

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by DJ-Studd, Feb 27, 2011.

  1. DJ-Studd

    DJ-Studd Junior Member

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    Am I the only person who is frustated with the amount of politics going on around here?

    Gun control in America
    World leads and climate change
    Fake user accounts by corporations
    etc etc

    Can we get on with the real job of creating permaculture solutions and showcasing them to the world? Lets not get caught up in wasteful discussion of world politics and climate change, instead lets create practical demonstrations to show the public an alternative (and more sustainable, productive and healther) solution to how we're currently living as a society.

    /rant
     
  2. mischief

    mischief Senior Member

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    Yes!
    I'd love for you to come over to the members system.
    I am really interested in how others get on with their place, the differculties and what solutions they use/try.
    Dont you have afew acres to play in? I'm so jealous.
    See you soon.

    .....um you did realise that this is the 'Big Picture' where people are supposed to talk about things like politics and other ahm stuff.
     
  3. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day DJ

    My friend, permaculture is political. We cannot practice permaculture without being political. Every time we implement a new (or existing) permaculture design (be it conceptual, or a tried and true method), we are in essence making a political statement. Society does not exist within a political vacuum, my friend. Society - from its very core (the individual), to it's outer shell (all of humanity) - is one great heaving mass of political energy. Every great social and ecological battle that has ever been fought (and won) throughout the history of humanity, has been waged within a political milieu.

    Further Reading:

    Holmgren, D. (2002) Permaculture: Principles and Pathways Beyond Sustainability. Hepburn: Holmgren Design Services, pp. 256-7: 'Socio-political cycles as a pulsing system'

    ...and from my mentor

    Bookchin, M. (1989) Radical Politics in an Era of Advanced Capitalism. Green Perspectives, No. 18

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  4. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    I don't get frustrated DJ. I just don't read it. I already assume guns are dumb; that corporations (and thus modern governments) are out to screw me and that we are shitting in our own nest. So when that stuff comes up I just glaze over and go back out to the garden to do my bit, clean up my little part of the nest.

    Every now and then I can't resist and try to push my thoughts, but usually no-one bothers to respond. In my own conceited way I just assume they see the logic of my view and decide to ignore it and go back to debating the little things. Or perhaps they don't understand what I am saying, or see me as a raving lunatic unworthy of response. Oh well, that just helps me distance myself further and further from the mainstream.

    From the last chapter - Chapter 81 of the Tao Te Ching as translated by Stephen Mitchell

    True words aren't eloquent;
    eloquent words aren't true.
    Wise men don't need to prove their point;
    men who need to prove their point aren't wise.

    The Master has no possessions.
    The more he does for others,
    the happier he is.
    The more he gives to others,
    the wealthier he is.

    The Tao nourishes by not forcing.
    By not dominating, the Master leads.
     
  5. sun burn

    sun burn Junior Member

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    Stop with the self pity graham. I've seen you say that before and seen also someone respond to it satisfactorily. You don't get ignored. You just have a persecution complex.

    I agreed with you DJ. Nevertheless i get caught up in these tedious discussions. I sometimes even start them. But i agree with you that what's most interesting on this forum is talk about how to the practical things on our land. When i came to this forum i said to myself that I would stay out of the political debate but alas for the lack of enough talk of peas and beans, i wandered in to the trap. On the other hand as graham says, just ignore them if you are not interested. I don't understand why they should frustrate you.

    Marko calling people "my friend" makes you sound creepy.
     
  6. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Thanks Sunburn.
     
  7. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day sun burn

    Just trying to actually be 'friendly'. You know, care for the people, and all that...

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  8. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Grahame

    I'm hearing you, brother!

    Kindest regards, Markos
     
  9. sun burn

    sun burn Junior Member

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    Marko LOL! Didn't sound like it.
     
  10. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Personally I was really pleased to see that SOMEONE is discussing gun control in the US. I haven't really understood the American obsession with the right to bear arms, because the majority view in Australia is so different. But I've been watching the American history thing that is running on the TV at present. I hadn't known / realised that independence from Britain was won through military might rather than negotiation. Australia has never had to bear arms in order to BECOME Australia. We have fought at other peoples battles and been used as cannon fodder instead. I think the differences in our history explain much of the different approaches to gun control.
    Though I still think that letting anyone have a gun is wrong. We licence car drivers, why not gun owners?
    I read some years back that if a householder owns a gun and someone is killed by it, then the most likely victim is the householders teenage son committing suicide. It was Australian data, but I suspect that it would be the same in the States.
     
  11. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Ah, sun burn. That's because of this horrible medium with which we are forced to communicate; the internet. It does not allow for you to hear the melodic tenor of my cheerful voice, nor see the genuine twinkle of friendliness in my eyes.

    Bye all, I'm off to the Beer Hall (Mandala Town) to catch with some good friends and have a beer or three :D
     
  12. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Hurry up Marko - Grahame is eating all the peanuts and I told him to leave some for you!
     
  13. sun burn

    sun burn Junior Member

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    LOL eco, why are you discussing gun control here and not on the gun control thread? LOL again. I just throw up my hands with regard to this topic. Its their problem. Nothing we think or say about it over here is going to affect anything. From the outside, the american way seems like total lunacy. But those of them who like their guns, refuse to see it. Let them live with the consequences. For this reason alone, i'm glad i live here and not there.

    Its the same with the death penalty and any other backwardness that too many americans want to pursue. We've got our own issues. We should focus on them.
     
  14. Glenn18

    Glenn18 Junior Member

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    Sorry folks,must be my day for a rant.
    I know lots of GOOD ppl that have guns,sound in mind & body.If you ARE lucky enough to be able to ring the police AFTER your home has been invaded,you have been bashed/shot and your wife has been raped.Well,lucky just dosen't cut it for me or my wife.Most criminals don't register their firearms,are not sound in mind or body and don't succome to peace,love or being stoped with milk and cookies over a shoulder to vent on.I'll take my chances with the court,not with the invader.
     
  15. Earthwizz

    Earthwizz Junior Member

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    Politics is bolloticks. It's an adversarial decision-making system which, in itself, is a stupid way to make decisions. Qualities we'd like in decision-making, discussion, creativity, imagination, innovation, can't exist in such an aggressive environment. That makes politics thoroughly unsustainable; it won't last.
    Our own approach towards each other and our earth is far more co-operative, therefore more productive and rewarding. It's sustainable, growing exponentially and will last. That growth may seem slow but remember how slow the growth of environmental awareness seemed 30 yrs ago. It makes sense to focus only on the sustainable because that's our future.
     
  16. Kardella

    Kardella Junior Member

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    Being a permaculture supporter/practitioner I agree that it is important that we should focus on the practice and precepts of permaculture and that it provides an excellent template for how people can live productively and sustainably on this earth. But it is also important to engage with the wider community including the political framework in which we live. Whether we like it or not, the politics will determine how we use the land, whether it will be available for sustainable agriculture or whether it will be assigned to broad-acre farming, strip mining or other non-sustainable pursuits. In many countries throughout the world, land tenure is not guaranteed and even in Australia mining rights are given precedence. We need to indicate our support for our brothers and sisters in Africa, Asia and elsewhere who are being displaced from their land for plantations, mines, dams etc. and are becoming the new urban poor. Above all, our climate is changing and while we can be a good exemplar of living with a low carbon footprint, we ignore the issues and politics of climate change at our own peril.
     
  17. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    That is the exact point of my world. I care for the earth & in turn she cares for me, and the people around me. It will ripple out, and does. People have often said my homestead is as calming as a monestery. However, that also doesn't mean I can't be the uppity crazy New Yorker I originally was, especially when it comes to my freedom, liberty, and pursuit of my happiness.
     
  18. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    That's because most people stopped thinking 7 generations ahead like humans should be.
     
  19. Earthwizz

    Earthwizz Junior Member

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    Hi Kardella,
    I agree with your sentiments and overall concerns entirely. I have serious doubts that our current political system can achieve our aims. Our only possible sustainable future, in my opinion, is in co-operation with each other and our earth and, by definition, an adversarial system can't achieve that. I think there are other strategies and one idea I've been working on for about 16yrs is in an article just published in the Byron Echo https://www.echo.net.au/issue_section/82
    Our adversarial system is supposed to give a voice to the people. What it actually does is split society down the middle effectively shutting them up. Then the system is run by 'the money', business as usual. There must be better strategies to achieve what we want because politics is bollotics.
     

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