TIME TO WAKE UP, PEOPLE

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by heuristics, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. heuristics

    heuristics Junior Member

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    You think the “nucliar” debate will simply go away because the idea is just so incredibly unbelievably DUMB stupid, idiotic insane ... dont be so sure.
    Last month Howard went to Washington for his regular suck-fest with Bush.... then he went to Canada and announced he wanted a “full and frank” debate on nuclear energy in Oz????
    Guess who wants to build nuclear power stations in Oz? Westinghouse, General Electric..... these people want nuclear because they can control it the way they controlled oil for century before it ran out (what? The oil hasnt run out! Hmm, people 10 or 15 more years of oil is no “future”)
    They dont want solar, they dont want bio-fuels... they cant control this technology and its raw resources .... they want nuclear because they already own the technology and they own the uranium..... US bases at Pine Gap... A railway from Adelaide to Darwin, suddenly built "now", after a century of planning, why? Answer: To facilitate US troop movements in Oz (what, you didn't see that article in the paper?)
    Haliburton was involved in the construction.. (Who is Haliburton? You better bloody well Find Out) Where are the Oz uranium mines? Oh, that's right, near the US bases in central Oz....
    Do you know the US bases in Central Australia are considered US territory? The Oz govt has no jurisdiction over them...

    If we sit by and just think this nuclear nonsense will go away, well it wont... it's time to really get active and lobby and go to meetings and WATCH what is happening..... Howard has appointed a committee to investigate nuclear..... WHO is on the committee, WHO owns them???
    A lot of permies think Peak Oil will be good because it will force a change to better, more sustainable energy..... THINK AGAIN..... we are at the cross roads... do you want nuclear power?
    If not bloody well say and DO something.. start now!
     
  2. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    Scott Parkin knows a lot about Halliburton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Parkin https://www.counterpunch.org/parkin05102005.html

    The war in Iraq is literally Halliburton's war. https://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=6008
    https://www.halliburtonwatch.org/

    Halliburton subsidiary, Kellog Brown Root, built the Alice Springs to Darwin railway. The terminal is not in Darwin but a few Kilometres South East. It actually ends at a shipping terminal. Look it up on Google Earth - "Darwin/Ghan Terminal" lat=-12.4729292982, lon=130.903813012

    The area to the south west of the Ghan Station (this image is about 2 years old) is now a fuel depot - a specially-built bio-fuel depot, I am told. I am also told there are others in Adelaide and in Sydney. I have no doubt there are more in other capital cities.

    Interesting, no? "They" don't just want nuclear power, Heuristics, they want Total Power.

    But just who are "They"? Here's a clue: Arbeit Macht Frei.

    https://43rddems.org/ https://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/fe ... ncamps.htm

    Whatever form of energy replaces oil, who will supply that energy?
    Answer: "they" will

    Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
     
  3. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Alex, who is telling you that it is a specially built biofuels depot? Are they manufacturing biodiesel or ethanol there? That would be a factory, right? A depot is just storage, right? Storage for ethanol or biodiesel is just tanks. You could reuse the ones used for gasoline or diesel fuel.
    Am I missing something?
     
  4. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    spot on heuristic

    if you want to know more about US bases in Australia see

    https://www.bsharp.net.au

    but there also another aspect - more nuclear power plants means more uranium enrichment and thus more Depleted Uranium to use for weapons

    to then be used to take over the worlds resources and as a weapon of
    genocide for those pesky "locals" who think they own resources needed by the USA

    frosty

    who will certainly continue to out there protesting against nuclear power and the US military intentions for australia
     
  5. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    Richard, I have a friend who worked on the construction. I just checked with him. The first stage, which he worked on, is petrol and diesel oil. The second stage, now under construction, is the biodiesel storage facility.

    You won't have heard much about it on the regular propaganda channels, what with the so-called war on terror, but it's no secret, and it's part of a global network. Here's a few links:

    https://www.nt.gov.au:8501/dberd/ldc/doc ... _Fuels.pdf

    https://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory ... /story.htm

    https://www.vopak.com/press/137_739.php

    https://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/ ... /sub95.pdf

    https://www.nt.gov.au/dcm/publications/b ... ritory.pdf

    https://www.nt.gov.au/

    Remember the recent evening propaganda reports about Indonesia clearfelling huge swathes of rain forest to grow palm oil? No? Oh well, there IS a war on, after all. There's a war on, alright.

    https://www.awionline.org/wildlife/q47-1ora.htm

    https://www.bkpm.go.id/bkpm/news.php?mod ... fo_id=2635

    https://news.indahnesia.com/item/2006033 ... oducer.php

    You know the Chinese curse?




    "May you live in interesting times."
     
  6. heuristics

    heuristics Junior Member

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    WAKE UP YOU LOT

    Thanks for these links Alex - and others...
     
  7. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

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    *cross posted*... will fix
     
  8. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:57 am Post subject: idiot alert
    Christopher seems determined to fuck up this forum. I am really pissed off I cannot locate the shit I had collected from the other site.

    1. was a poll about the clowns on the PRI site
    2. was christopher shooting his mouth off about chatters on this side anyway i grabbed it but it didnt last long, it was edited and chris was told to keep those conversations to PM's..

    3. Why dont they just fuck off and take their 'agents' with them..

    Murray, should lock him out again... for good.

    floot


    Not sure what he is going on about. None of that happened..... In fact, not ony did none of that happen, he is lieing. Prove one word of the guibberish you just said, or shut up and get back to posting about permaculture!

    Back on topic, you all need to focus on making sure Australia doesn't get nukes. The US is saddled with large amounts of nuclear waste that isn't going away. It costs the taxpayers millions to keep it in unsafe above ground storage sites, while the for profit companies that generated the waste cleared millions, the clean up is costing the tax payers.

    I just read that Australia is planning on "lending" the US nuke material, sending fuel out and taking waste back! That is a terrible idea for Australia! No amount f money can compensate future generations of Australians for radioactive spent rods so idiots in the US can keep the Aircon high while at the office and come home to a cool house.....[/b]
     
  9. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    Stupidity, rigorously applied. :cry: :evil:
     
  10. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    I agree!
     
  11. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    I agree wholeheartedly. No more uranium leave it in the ground. That phrase pops out of my mouth inadvertantly sometimes when I am doing completely unrelated things.
    I only opened two of your links Alex. So, they are building a biodiesel manufacturing facility in Darwin. That is good, right? Okay, it ain't cool to clear forest to grow fuel crops, at all, especially when Orangutans are involved, but you know, at least these evil corporations are now trying to make profits from renewables...
     
  12. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    No Richard, I don't think that is good. Not at all. It's not the Orangutans' fault that we humans can't control our greed, or limit our numbers. We can't cut down enough rainforest to replace oil with biofuels. Even if we cut the whole bloody lot down, and give over more of "our" monocroplands to bio fuels, there isn't enough.

    I recomend Lovelock's "The Revenge of Gaia". You might not like what he says, and I don't completely agree with him, but he knows a lot more about the environmental systems of our mother Earth than I do, and I respect his opinion, and defer to his knowledge.

    I'm not being a doomsayer, either. Things are actually not as bad as they seem to be; it's just a matter of perspective. Really. Not one atom in the entire universe is out of place. Everything is exactly as it should be right now. Our challenge is to decide how they will be, and act accordingly.
     
  13. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Alex,

    Good points. Amory Lovins is brilliant! His book, "Natural Capitalism" is, perhaps, the most important book I have ever read....

    I wish I shared your optimism, or fatalism!

    C
     
  14. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    Thanks Christopher.

    Q. Is the glass half full, or half empty?

    A. Depends what's in it.

    BTW, I'm not attacking you, Richard. I believe the human race is on the threshold of maturity. We haven't been here long, only a few million years, and need to make some pretty mature decisions right now, and we all have to able to accept the outcome, whatever that is. It is extemely important that we be at peace with ourselves, and with all our relations. The rest will follow.
     
  15. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Alex,

    I doon't think Richasrd is disagreeing with you! Sounds like sarcasm to me!

    C
     
  16. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    D'oh! :lol:
     
  17. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Alex,

    Hahahahahah! The biggest problem with forums is that the lack of tones and inflection of speech, the expressions communicated between people while speaking through facial muscles, etc, are all lacking, so short of inserting the appropriate emoticon, soit is difficult to know how people are saying what they are saying!

    Some peopple get upset when they don't understand! :(

    Others try to insert levity and humour, but with a straight face..... :lol:

    Others just keep cool, and try to be objective 8)

    Still, it can be confusing :?

    And, some jerks (translates as "wanker" to Aussie) :jerk: post things that are incredibly innappropriate and objectifying of women, etc! :shock: which is enough to make me feel sick :sad4: and wanna hurl :pukeright:

    This type of objectification makes some people feel very uncomfortable :oops:

    However, sometimes, when confronted on their unsustainable and offensive sexism and objectification of women (and, humour aside, "topless" relegates women to being objects, hence the term "objectification"), those very same people have on line emotional meltdowns :cussing: , which I have to admit, and only between us, I sometimes find amusing :badgrin:

    They even act as if they want to foight! :violent1: :blackeye: arguing, making spurious allegations and libelous accusations with NO substance :pain10: which I think is really a cry for help! :help: Luckily, they live far away, or I might be a wee bit intimidated :axe:

    But I think, between you and me :wink: , that confusion is easily remedied by keeping an open mind.... and a sweet disposition :angel12: and this will help those with tendencies towards unhappiness from flaming out :violent3:

    So before anyone gets unhappy, I suggest they have a cuppa :coffee2: and don't get upset :crybaby:

    And, before I go further, I think I'll just stop :stop: Lets all just feel the love, okay? :heart:

    Bye! :wave:
     
  18. murray

    murray Junior Member

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    great post on flames i saw:

    Flames: Emotional Amplification of Text

    I've been a moderator/host/forum leader for various bulletin boards and other online communities since the early 1980s; first on CompuServe, later on GEnie and AOL, and then professionally in the early days of Consensus Development. One of the behaviors that happens in online communities and that I rarely see elsewhere is flaming -- where one member writes an extremely inappropriate, typically passionately worded attack on another. Flaming behavior can hurt an online community.

    It is commonly thought that flames occur because "there is very little proper policing done on the Internet" but I believe this to be false. Instead, I believe that it is the consequence of the medium primarily existing as text.

    In fact, what you'll observe if you study individual flames is that they typically start as an escalation of emotion, only spiraling later into passionate and personal arguments. The only way to stop flames from destroying a community is to break this cycle.

    So I've taught all my staffers over the years my ideas on what causes the cycle of flames, and how to avoid them. One particular piece of advice that I give is in regards to how emotions are amplified in the online text medium.

    This happens for several different reasons:

    Since text is lacking tonal and visual context, we have a tendency to over-interpret any emotional content that does exist (link to paper). In fact, we may have no better than a random chance of correctly interpreting the emotional tone of ironic vs sincere text in a message (link to Epley/Kruger paper).

    In addition, we tend to respond to someone's emotional state by expressions of similar intensity (this phenomenon is known as Emotional Contagion). And the higher the level of intensity of our emotions, the less our ability to be empathetic (link to paper).

    These tendencies lead into a vicious feedback cycle.

    * One person starts with a very trivial or subtle emotional context, say irony.
    * This is interpreted at a higher level of emotions, such as sarcasm.
    * A reply is made at a similar level of emotion, for example being sarcastic.
    * This, in turn, is interpreted at an even higher level of emotion, maybe a mild insult.
    * In turn this is replied to at a similarly intense level.
    * A flame is born!

    Thus I now find that now there are certain words and phrases that I avoid using when responding to people online. I have to be very careful with irony and sarcasm, and when I use them I include symbols such as smilies to such give the emotional context that is missing from the text. I find that even the slightest hint of blame will be over-interpreted. I avoid the words "should" and "didn't", never tell someone that they forgot something, etc.

    My online community staffers have found understanding this cycle an important tool in moderating the communities they lead.

    https://www.lifewithalacrity.com/2006/02 ... tiona.html
     
  19. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    No, no sarcasm intended here. I don't think it is good that orangutans are becoming extinct. I do think it us fantastic that profit driven corporations are finally looking at renewable fuels.
    It will be up to us as Permaculture designers, activists and farmers/gardeners to quickly develop multifunctional systems that prove that you don't need to deunde any more natural ecosystems in order to meet humanity's needs. That palm oil trees can actually grow very productively as windbreaking intercrops in diverse agricultural systems, cultivated ecologies, if you will, that provide right livelihoods. :D Of course, as well as getting smart about production we also need to reduce consumption, and those evil bastards in their offices probably won't be happy about that.
     
  20. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    Firstly, to get an idea of the voice I use when I write, just read with the flattest dead-pan Steven-Hawking-type voice you can imagine. :book: Or maybe Elliot Goblet.

    Thanks for the flaming information Murray, you're a top bastard, and no mistake. :D I shall endeavour to be more clear, and to choose my words very carefully. Didn't St Paul write something in Corinthians about being nothing without clarity? :lol: And these emoticon thingies are a handy way to nuance text, as Chris :hello2: ably demonstrates.

    Richard, the point I was making was that the corporations haven't just recently woken up to the peak oil situation. It takes a good few years for projects on the scale of a global biodiesel production and distribution network to grow from idea to completion. And this isn't a research or pilot scheme. A big, expensive plant is being built to undertake a well established process (there's a lot of pumps, welded stainless-steel pipework, crackers, filters, heaters, etc, etc in these plants). Ethanol is essential for Biodiesel production, and John W Howard has been giving a lot of support to the ethanol industry in OZ for years, despite this appearing irrational. Now it makes sense. There's often not much difference between a conspiracy and a business plan. The fact that none of this information made it into the propaganda services is not the least bit surprising, either, eh? :wink:

    I'm betting there will be a nuclear power station built here, and its location, or at least a few options, have already been decided. You must have observed already, that when "they" offer us a choice, it's often between the option they want, and one that no reasonable person would ever accept. In this way, we always make the "right" choice. In the end, we'll go to the barricades over the ones planned for the Great barrier reef, Kakadu National Park, and My Back Yard, finally claiming a victory when the government is "forced" to give land to GE and Halliburton for free, at Broken Hill or somewhere where the locals "need the jobs".
     

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