Thirty days in jail for catching rainwater?

Until recently it was illegal to have rain water tanks in my shire/council area too!

https://news.opb.org/article/rainwater_collection_case_leads_to_jail_sentence_fine/

 

I have friends that live 1 town over from where this occured. Some odd things to put this into perspective.

Yes, OR has rainwater laws, but they were updated state wide & we have this handy thing to go by.

https://www.bcd.oregon.gov/pdf/3660.pdf

It is a 20 page guide on how to.

Then I also found this:
Oregon
Since Oregon allows for alternate methods of construction of rainwater harvesting systems, the Oregon Building Codes Division (BCD) created methods for both potable and non-potable systems. Oregon Revised Statute §455.060 Senate Bill 79, passed in 2009, directs the BCD to increase energy efficiency, by including rainwater harvesting, in new and repaired buildings.


https://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/env-res/rainwater-harvesting.aspx




However, what really vexes me is that this area of Oregon is trying desperately to be a big urban center, and yet this area, where I have friends living, cannot capture rain water, cannot grow any kind of food in the front lawn (what little they have, it is a 1m by 1m plot). Almost no recycling programs as well.

 

Sad and amazing, i suppose they can have an AK47 and a 600 bullet magazine through?

 

This article contends that it applies to swales as well.

https://www.naturalnews.com/036615_Oregon_rainwater_permaculture.html

 

Rainwater harvesting from roofs is allowed by Oregon law: https://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/env-res/rainwater-harvesting.aspx

Some surface water uses don't require a permit:

"Exempt Uses
water uses that do not require a permit
Some uses of water do not require a water right. For surface water these include: natural springs which do not flow off the property on which they orginate, stock watering, fire control, forest management, and the collection of rainwater. Ground water exempt uses include: stock watering, less than one-half acre of lawn and garden watering, and domestic water uses of no more than 15,000 gallons per day. Consult the Department for more information about exempt uses." www1.wrd.state.or.us/pdfs/​infosheet2.law.pdf

I think that naturalnews article is a bit of a right-wing panic fest.

 

OR has the most liberal gun laws in the US. In Oregon, you can legally fire a machine gun, shoot a flamethrower, even launch a few grenades as long as you do it safely and with registered equipment. However, when you buy such things you need lots of money to legally buy, & register the weapon, local law enforcement runs a background check, signs off on it, and then the Feds do the exact same process of background checks making sure you have a clean record.

And for the record, I am not saying I agree or disagree, not saying I own or don't own, just stating how it is here.

 

Yeah yeah

 

I saw that a US High (Supreme) Court Judge had voted to make rocket launchers legal under the second amendment!
Surely the 'right to bare arms' thing was written when "arms" meant muskets not rocket launchers and AK47 with obscene magazines.

I fail to understand the Yank fear of the Federal Government. Surely Roosevelt showed that without the Feds you would have Wall St running the show and all would be screwed? I guess many (Republicans?) long for those pre Roosevelt days?

 

I thought that garden was in Canada....

 

Mick;

I made the same error as you, thinking I understood your culture enough to make an inane comment (sympathetic) and was very politely reproved for it. What is not understood by many is that our current government is very comfortably in bed with the banks and wall street. They exempt themselves from the laws they expect us to adhere to and are systematicly removing our "God given" rights. They are trashing our constitution , which made us the most prosperous country in the world. Sure there were tyrants among us who rode roughshod over others, but that's true of any country, but our "poor" are quite well-to-do compared to the poor in other countries. Our present generation consists of over forty percent who think the government is a cornicopia with goodys for any who would like to sit on their arse and complain. Our current laws protect the criminals and persecute any who seek justice. They punish any ambitious successful person by saddling the businesses with regulations that Solomon would scratch his head over, and then tell them that they didn't make it on their own (Obama's words). He claimed that their success happened because of mostly Government help and they should share their wealth with the less fortunate.(who had the same access to the "government help". My words) and as if that isn't enough, the working man (as opposed of the sit on his arse and collect it man) MUST pay into a government run ponzi scheme created by FDR and dipped into constantly as a slush fund, called Social Security. Now the bloody liberal dems say it's the duty of the hard-working to not only support the constantly complaining "losers", but to replinish the constantly raided slush fund. Yes I am a conservative who believes that if the present government, Bush included had let the capitolist system work and let the "too big to fail" banks fail, we would have had a catstrophic depression, but we would have bounced back. The unsuccessful companies would have naturally been replaced by a "better mousetrap". Without government intervention banks wouldn't have been FORCED to make unrecoverable loans to "the poor minorities" Now the latest news is a third attempt to revitalize may go into effect sometime next month. This is supposed to perk up the ecconomy just long enough for Obama to claim that his programs are working (for the election in Nov.)

I didn't mean to get back into polotics. but there is a reason the constitution gave us the "Right to bear arms" and it has to do with our current administration's effort to take our ""last resort" means to defend our homes and families. If the NRA had not been fighting the government for that right, the only guns in our population would belong to criminals. We are being forced, as it is, to hand over, in one form of tax or another, over half of our earnings to our "protectors", and the more people the government can "give" that money to, the more "financial slaves" will be behind it when all our rights are gone. Only slaves are not afforded rights, and only freemen can make their own choices. The "handouts" may have already sealed our coming election. Why would the millions of reciepients take a chance of losing their sacred cow status by voting out their "Savior"?

The picture shown in the previous blog of the front yard garden being banned is a good example of bureaucratic stupidity and has nothing to do with the other picture which would have also been banned if they had their "druthers". Our present government is promoting hatred for anyone who is not content to let the government "support" them, and making it more and more dificult for those with any ambition to become successful and thereby "create" employment. As to our gun laws, by forcing registery of all firearms (which most criminals can skirt) they know who to go after first, labling them terrorists to be eliminated. History has a way of repeating itself if we don't learn from it. Our schools, by and large, are , under the thumb of pseudo-socialist government, teaching marxist and/or facist garbage to both our young schoolchildren and college students. This was done in the early days (Brownshirts) of the nazi regime. The people over there had no Idea how bad it would get until it was too late. The Russians had no Idea how bad it would get under Stalin. Our President already bypassed congress and bribed our representatives to get his way. When his big bill was brought to the Supreme Court, he did all in his power to sway their opinion, and succeeded in keeping the bill law. I wholehearted agree with pakanohida that our country is in trouble, but not from the conservatives. We are not yet where our president wants us, or I wouldn't be able to write and send this. Of course I could find my next Social Security check (which I have contributed to for over 50 years)"Lost in the mail"

Just an old timer who has seen it happen before, (Can't happen here?)
Ben

 

I'm hearing you Ben. When Obama signed off the NDAA (new years eve I think it was) allowing people to be locked up with no charges for indefinite periods, I got a bit nervous. Then I saw some guy saying that the US takes its lead from the UN and not congress when it comes to going to war, I got the impression that executive power had overstepped the mark again. Seen lots of other stuff too which makes it look like the government is preparing for martial law over there. Having worked in government for 17 years, I do not trust much of what they do. It's always to stay in power and to that they will do almost anything. Lie, spin, hide,deceive - whatever it takes.

When you look through history, it always comes down to the same thing. Too much power in too few hands equals oppression. Unless an individuals rights are enshrined in law, you are left to the benelovence of those in power. Good luck with that.

And the loss of rights and freedoms do not happen all at once. They do it incrementally so that people don't complain and then one day everyone realises and its too late. a bit like the frog in the pot, gradually the heat is turned up but it doesn't notice and it boils to death. Hitler did it slowly but surely. I think a lot of people are just trying to pay their bills and work very hard and don't have time to see what's happening. And they are tired.

 

Mick;

And about the muskets; Cannons and muskets were all the "government" had back then. Both single shot. Care to speculate about the arms and devices our governments can use against it's citizens, not to mention the new armed drones. If our government decided to use force against us, we'd need more than AK47s, and that is what "the right to bear arms" is about. I'm not some crazy survivalist with an agenda. I'd love to spend the rest of my days peacefully tending this little piece of land whatever power there is has allowed me to occupy, but mark my words. A day is coming when the "losers" will try to take what they've been told is rightfully theirs from the hands of those who have paid for it with the sweat from their brow. The poor are being pitted against the rich over here by our present government. (DIVIDE AND CONQUER)
I'm not a Republican either, because the Reps and dems are all the same once they taste the power. They become career politicians with nothing on their mind but the next election.

Ben

 

Annette;

Thank you for your support. It is as you said, but I think some of the blinders are coming off. I don't know if you heard about the Chick-fil-a rebound over here, when the owner simply stated on the air during an interview that he agrees with the biblical definetion of marraige. The "gays" over here decided to boycot his restaurants. One mayor said he would not let him open a part of the chain in his city, the liberal media picked it up. Yesterday they broke all existing records in sales and support and a proposed sit-in by the angry gay and lesbian group fizzled under the pressure. It was just one man's expressed "opinion" and didn't affect his hiring or serving policies. Those people can say anything they want to support their views, but let one conservitive open his mouth and all hell breaks loose. They seem to think that freedom of speech only applies to them lol.

Ben

 

Thanks Benjy136 for your tirade
(Godwin's Law still working I see)
Your sarcasm is noted, i merely said "I fail to understand the Yank fear of the Federal Government"
Here I live in a society where:

• I trust the checks and balances of the system
• I don't feel I need a gun to protect myself or fight Government oppression
• I do not feel frightened

So you can understand my lack of understanding.

I do not share your conservative agenda. I find it cruel, heartless, prejudiced, ill-informed, illogical, destructive and divisive philosophy based on memes and slogans, fear and greed.
It's favourite blame game "Is't it awful that. . ."

But lets agree to disagree. Permaculture is a broad church

 

Mick;

Perhaps , as was pointed out to me earlier, our definitions of words are different. To me, a conservative is one who believes the best government is a small government with true representation of the people. A liberal believes that the people don't have the ability to make the "right" choices for themselves and must make the choices for them. They also think they are smarter and more tolerant than anyone else. They find "humanitarian" projects to endear them to the general public to insure repeat terms in office. The majority of these projects are rife with skimmers. Our government has a history of always spending much more than the same project would cost in the private sector. Left unburdened with the heavy taxation placed upon them, the earners have contributed to the needs of the community. It's Just Good Business. The hebrews were only "taxed" 10%. We, who work, give over half our lives to the government in taxes. And the Libs are still not satisfied. The richest portion (6%) presently pay well over 90% of the taxes and the Libs are yelling about making them pay their fair share. I am a conservative. In any relationship I try (and this is easily verified) to give more than I take. Is this cruel? In my divorce, six years ago, (Easily verified) my ex did not even need a lawyer. I gave her the land, the house, (paid for) a sizable bank account, tractor/mower, car, ect. and walked away with a beat-up pickup and $4,000 to start fresh. Does this sound heartless? I am not influenced by nationality or the color of a man's skin in my relations with others. Is this prejudiced? When You say Ill-informed, are you suggesting that I don't check both sides of a coin before I accept it? Is it logic to believe you can spend your way out of debt? Is it logic to attack the class that is contributing the most to your economy?Have I been destructive, turning a useless piece of land into a naturally productive habitat? As far as divisive, Our present president has done more to divide this country of ours than any enemy we may have outside the USA. I really didn't mean to attack your beliefs, Mick. I must assume that you and I have no more than a difference of opinion concerning the words "Liberal and conservative" They both meant something different in our early history. Please feel free (and this not sarcasm) to give examples of why you hold these opinions you have expressed. We may even have better than a Buckly's chance of becoming, if not friends, at least acquaintances lol.

Ben

 

Yes you might be right Benjy136
When i say conservative I am thinking of the USA Tea Party or here the very right of the Australian "Liberal" party who trade on fear and hate. ( as does the far right of the Labor party)

From here, your President looks 1,000 times better than Bush and is generally very popular.

(Incidentally if you paragraph your posts they will be easer to read and not like being hit over the head with a block of lead typeface!)

 

More on this
Jackson County, Oregon says it owns YOUR rainwater, and the county has sentenced a man to 30 days in jail and fined him over $1500, for the supposed "crime" of collecting rainwater on his own property.

The man's name is Gary Harrington, and he owns over 170 acres of land in Jackson County. On that land, he has three ponds, and those ponds collect rainwater that falls on his land. Common sense would say Gary has every right to have ponds with water on his 170 acres of land, but common sense has been all but abandoned in the state of Oregon.

Much like California, Oregon is increasingly becoming a collectivist state. You didn't build that! The government built that! You don't own that! The government owns that! That rainwater that just fell on your land? That's the government's rainwater, and you're going to jail if you try to steal from the government!

That's the explanation from Jackson County officials, who initially granted Harrington "permits" to build ponds back in 2003. Yes, in Oregon you actually need to beg for permission from the government just to have a pond on your own land. But the state of Oregon revoked his permits a few years later, after he had already created the ponds, thus putting Harrington in the position of being a "water criminal" who was "stealing" rainwater from the state.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/112720874

 

Mick;

Thank you for your reply. The media over here skews so many things in their "news". The Tea Party is a non-violent grass roots group all over our country. There is no "Hate speech" coming from them, as there is from the "Left". They believe in free speech, but also the responsibility that goes with it. When they met in the Capitol there was NO negativity in their speakers. When they left the area was, if any different, cleaner than when the over 100,000 arrived. The media gave them only negative coverage, encouraged by the present "elite" left. That is, the ones trying to create a chasm between the wealthy (job creating taxpayers) and the poor.

By the government's standards, according to income, I am at the poverty level, but The only help I ask from the government is the social security benefits I have contributed to all my adult life. I have a small (about 2 acres) homesite with a shop, small greenhouse and garden (60'X6o'). My SS is $800.00 a month and my garden supplies a good deal of my food, amusement and exercise. Most of the rest of the rest of the world's "poverty class" would trade with me in a heartbeat. The poor in America have become increasingly covetous of the yachts and mansions of the rich, fueled by the present elite.

The Blacks over here have been given greater opportunities in all fields of endeavor Because of their ancestors hardships, but their "leaders (NAACP, Jessie Jackson, Obama, etc.) { I don't include Martin Luther King Jr. here. He was, in my opinion, their last great leader} continue telling them that they are still oppressed and must overturn this country's white masters' reign.

Over 45% of our population not only pay no taxes, but are on some kind of government entitlement program. The government continues to advertise their "SNAP" program, food stamps, in an attempt to get more people dependent on them. I qualify, but you won't find my name on that list. Instead of encouraging people to go back to work, they continue to pave an Easy Street that the "workers" must maintain at an increasingly high cost. This is the "Liberal" party doing this and it is the road to Collapse that our present leader and his cronies are are guiding us down. Please don't believe everything you read in the US papers. Who do you suppose is bailing out our newspapers and TV media? The same people who bailed our banks and GE, and the Auto industry. I live here and am just glad that I have lived over 80 years with my freedoms intact...... until now.

Ben

 

Excellent comments there Ben. Unfortunately too many are without the historical knowledge to make sense of what you say. They assume that the freedoms and privileges that exist in a country like Australia, are the "natural order of things" and have nothing to do with the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.
It is also blindingly obvious to anyone unafraid to confront the truth, that the US has been captured by a cabal of totalitarians intent upon a new dark age in which the US citizen loses all their rights and a technocratic elite take over.
A look at history will reveal that the first order of business for any totalitarian dictator is rounding up the citizens firearms. The issue of rising global totalitarianism particularly in the US under the puppets Robama/Obomney, will no doubt crop up more and more in the permaculture community as issues like arresting people for having veggie patches, selling raw milk, or collecting rainwater, increase. Thankfully one of the strengths of the permaculture movement is in it's diversity, existing as it does outside tired labels of left and right. I am hopeful that there will be a setting aside of differences and a joining together with everyone in society who seeks an end to the increasing centralisation of power under this monstrous global totalitarianism. Certainly there is no escaping the inevitable head on collision between decentralised, local community based permaculture, and this tyrannical global governance banking cabal.

 

Stanley;

AMEN. One of the confusing things over here: If a person kills an expectant mother, the charge is TWO counts of murder. If a woman murders her own unborn child she gets a pat on the back from the liberated female groups. The top democrat (outside of Biden and Obama), Harry Reid has accused Romney of commiting a felony, and then says it is up to Romney to prove his innocence. According to our laws, a person is innocent until PROVEN guilty. Reid, Pelosi and Obama (when he worked for ACORN) forced the loan companies to give housing loans to minorities who couldn't possibly repay them in the name of "social justice" I'm sure you've seen where that led in 2008 over here. I have sincere admiration for the people of Australia. I don't think you know what it is like to have nothing to do but sit on your butt and wait on a monthly stipend like a good many dags over here who whinge about their lot in life. I must apologize for my rant, but when an old man gets someones ear he tends to chew it off. I have been blessed to find this site, and sometimes I do more talking than listening. A fault of mine. Organic gardening has been a joy of mine for more than two thirds of my life. I've learned from you folks, now, that there is more. Years ago people chided me about my OG. Now they react the same about permaculture and and raising worms. Thank you once again for your patience.

Ben

Ps. Pelosi {Nancy) was the one who said about Obamacare "We have to pass it to see what's in it"..?????