The Professional Permaculturalist

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by silentwavez, Apr 14, 2005.

  1. silentwavez

    silentwavez Guest

    Hi guys Im new here, so :D Hope your all livin an lovin

    Just wandering how many people in Australia are practising permaculture gardening/landscaping as a business? And who an where are they?
    Why is lawn mowing still big time?
    Why hasnt permaculture made big inroads into the mainstream new home buyers realm of possibilites?
    Does anyone see this vast rift in the vally of sustainability thats not beaming into the conciousness of the average suburban family.. The void of practical permaculture in everyones back yard....

    I guess you get my drift.. I have landscape gardened before, mowed lawns, built swimming pools an water features, and put roofs over peoples heads.. But I feel this dire need to popularise Permaculture an initiate inroads into the average new house block that is there because it destroyed all the living eco-systems around it.. And make it POPULAR and FASHIONABLE to create a thriving living eco-system around our living areas..

    So does anyone out there have any ideas how to do it? And whats going on?
    Cheers
    Glen :roll:
     
  2. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Prffesional Permaculturists

    [/sizeG,day Mate..Welcome to the board..
    I cant answer for everyone here ,,,But i bet there are thousands of us that are into it in Aussie..Just that most dont dont go pro or have beenjust plain busy with life..Permaculture isnt just about vegies and chooks its a lot of things so maybe everyone doesnt have a fruit forrest in their front garden lol.as for the pros im still looking for others who can teach in the rural areasas well....Its just that many dont go pro but just play in there back garden without the thought that "oh my god that persons a bloody greenie lol"..My self i dont care who knows my parrot is trained to say permaculture and vote greens and permaculture was the first word my first grandson muttered to me
    I think the retirement of Bill Mollison hasnt helped our cause much either
    as we dont hear much about it in media"i wonder why"The establishment dont want us to change the system so that dont help much eather.
    Basicly the poor dumb sheep"sorry humans in aussie are more interested in their mortgage ratesand whose dating who in hollywood to be awareof much else"
    My answer is like the sports logo "Just Do It"
    Show people your garden,encourage them ,bully them lol.just be able to prove that you can really get something out of it ..Fruit,vegies,eggs,chooks,poket money,a healthy body a really nice garden.Ive managed to turn a few people into permaculture principles but i dont stress that they must use the exact wording many others do it but dont call there ideas by any name just gardening.
    Lead by example turn your lawn into a native garden or a fruit forrest .if we keep getting less rain well all end up having a native garden sooner or later....The most important thing is to keep going and help them choose a totally new kind of government....the greens over here are increasing every election ,though the media wont tell you this :roll: Its time for everyone to WAKE UP to whats going on in this world and get ready to look after ourselves because No government can,will or gives a flying ****
    about us only themselves.Bills one great idea"yes he had lots"was to just plant seads everywhere trees ,plants etc the establishment cant go chasing all those multi billions of little seadlings can it??? :lol:
    Hope i havent put you off yet but i do get a bit carried away some days 8)

    Yours In "whatever"....PERMACULTURE
    Tezza
     
  3. darrenhatina

    darrenhatina Junior Member

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    Gotta agree with Tezza on that one. We've got to start by applying it in our own lives first and lead by example. If we just talk about it then we end up living in the permaculture fantasy and that doesn't help anyone. I think the best market for permaculture reaching the average joe is still in education, literature, and working system exhibits because people generally have more time than they do money. A design course plus an audit and some design mentoring might be sellable, or neighborly. Maybe even set it up like a ongoing coaching session so people could get advice and guidance during their implementation. This system seems to work well for financial coaching and psycho therapy. Various aspects of permaculture design and sustainability are slowly percolating into the various trades, but these services are still provided in a fragmented way and the customer is ultimately responsible for the overall design unless they have the money to delegate it to someone else.


    In Canada the government subsidizes energy efficiency audits where home/business owners get a score and lists of recommendations and advice. As they are implemented their score improves and they get a refund at the end based on the audited improvement on the score.
     
  4. silentwavez

    silentwavez Guest

    Thanks guys!
    I do realise the situation we are in regarding the masses of sheep people sleeping away waiting for their farmer "the government" to move them to a greener pasture. But why wait for the farmer to initiate great inroads..?

    Im sure there are more exciting and grander ways to express Permacultue to the ordinary peolple..

    From its conception an defineing by the pioneers it really hasnt been long at all to get to where we are.. And like you said our cause has been hampered by the retirement of Bill.. But are we that disempowered to wait for another Bill? Or A green government? Or wait till our neigbour looks over their fence an asks what where doing? The hippy image will continue if we just cruise an hope something great will occur.. "There is nothing more potent than an idea whose time has come" And im feeling like many others in many feilds of expression an sustainabilty an freedom an creativity that our time has come, that the earth needs us to stand up... WE need to make permaculture as common as "the lawn mower man".. An enligtened New age gardener if you will, that is in harmony with nature an living... A person well respected in the community because he/she is valuable... A person needed because he has studied a valuable component of life. :shock:

    I dont believe that people have more time than money either.. Alot of people I feel have less time an more money.. They have enormous amounts of $ to spend on cars, boats, jewelrey, fancy art peices, designs an useless bit of decoration that it boggles my mind.. What they dont have is the magical, practicle, mystical skill of returning their expensive peice of barren land into a paradise,... I think this skill is extremly valuable.. And our art an love of creating an blending with nature deserves to be heard and implemented.. I really feel that we are selling our selves short by restricting our love of permaculture by still living in the hippy days and waiting for the masses to come to us for a course or advice etc.. People are busy! Busy making money to spend.. And we all dont have the time to learn about everything in the world, so we rely on profeesionals to perform their magic...

    Many of us are proffesionals and we deserve to be able to make a living off our profession... We have educators, but there is very few hands on full time flat out earth regenerating ecosystem gardeners...

    Im saying all this because Im not a professional otherwise I would be doing it. Im just expressing myself an what I see.. I hope to one day be the professional I imagine so im writing this to learn.. And seek answers an questions an insights an creativity and unimaginable dreamings of possible realities....

    Just a thought :lol: expressed

    Glen
     
  5. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    Before Bill Mollison there was Masanobu Fukuoka in Japan, who devised crop stacking so there was always a crop (even it was a cover crop) in the ground, with no fallow period. His reasoning was brilliant.

    I recently asked a home permaculturist who lives in Japan if Fukuoka's methods had made a difference in farming methods there. No, he said.

    When you have people who let their government do their thinking for them, who are only interested in material gain, and think their food comes from the grocery store, it's going to be an uphill battle all the way. If you're going to Permaculture a piece of land, you're going to have to THINK. And from what I've seen, most people just aren't capable of doing that.

    Sue
     
  6. Mont

    Mont Junior Member

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    Silent, there is HEAPS happening out there in relation to sustainability but you're right, it hasn't cracked the surface of the mainstream yet. No point, at least in Australia and the US now, waiting for the government to do anything. We need to raise the profile of permaculture, preferably in the media. I notice that Peter Cundall on Gardening Australia on ABC TV promotes permaculture for all he's worth. Geoff Lawton once said he'd love to see a weekly TV show just on permaculture and I think one day it will happen. I wrote to Andrew Denton suggesting he interview Bill Mollison on his TV show, Enough Rope, which reaches all of Australia. Haven't seen him yet but you never know. And I see that Bill Mollison hasn't quite retired - he's doing a permaculture design course with Geoff in September - see the home page of this forum. Universities, too, like the University of NSW and the University of Technology, are doing LOTS of interesting stuff with sustainability in all areas of life. So yes, people are sheep. Yes, governments are useless, borderline-evil sheep. But there's a lot to be optimistic about.
    Pollyanna Mont
     
  7. Snake

    Snake Junior Member

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    The Future of Permaculture

    I would like to reach the point of teaching permaculture to others but I need to build a working demonstration site so that I know what I am doing and the theory is in practice for all to see. I think Permaculture is still in its infancy as far as most people are concerned - the threat of giving up their plasma screen TV's and reverse cycle airconditioners is too much to contemplate! That said, it is getting out there slowly:

    Eltham College (private high school in Melbourne) is teaching Permaculture principles to its Year 9 students this year as part of a course in Sustainability, the course involves practical exercises in animal management, growing veggies and some design, I think - see the web site: https://www.permacultureinternational.or ... chools.htm
    The West Australian Permaculture Association is looking to provide accredited permaculture training into schools too - I think the kids are probably more aware of the environmental situation and hopefully more inclined to pursue these things. So some work is being done and I think the contribution of programs like the ABC's Gardening Australia segments by Josh Byrne have been invaluable in creating a wider acceptance that permaculture is not just the latest in drop-out mung bean approaches where we knit our underwear from trimmed facial hair.... my beard just isn't up to that!

    Best thing is to practice it for others to see and as Tezza said, encourage, promote, bully and cajole to spread the word further! :D Cheers,

    Mark
     
  8. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    "When Permaculture is firmly in place, the beatings will cease."

    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  9. Cly

    Cly Junior Member

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    Heheh, beatings indeed.

    A great way to get the word out is City Farms, I think they're wonnnnderful!

    A weekly Sunday show on Briz 31 would be nice to, would give those who can't stand watching Cricket something interesting to tune into.
     
  10. silentwavez

    silentwavez Guest

    :) Thanks for all the advice guys!

    The path we walk I guess needs to be the path we see as truthful an moral an full of freeedom an harmony.. An by walking this Permaculture path we are giving an sharing an helping ourselves an eachother to grow an heal. Giving back to the Earth hopefully more than we have taken sems the only path at the moment..

    So with all these thoughts going on in my head an knowing some of the simple truths that surround us an our plight, I have decided to change my lifestyle to be more in tune with all that I believe..

    I do not want to get ahead riding on the back of the consuming machine anymore.. I dont want to work in the construction, fishing or hospitality industries to earn money to live green.. I am now focusing on being green while living.. It just seems ironic that that so many of us rely on the consumption destruction vehicle to get ahead, to be green an live harmoniously... When all where doing is helping the governments an the greedy to deepen its clutches over us and our precious environments..

    Living Green in our work, play an growth is very common sense and strategic. It is congruent with flow an life an Im sure the rewards are much greater than the usual machine robot 9-5 lifestyle that creates instability to to achieve our desired sustainability. So I have chosen to live a little poorly for the time being while I re-educate myself, re-green my habits an time an create a strategic plan to work sustainably. No more rooftiling for me! :lol:

    I am moving to 5acres of land in the sunshine coast hinterland............. 2 spring fed dams, good soil and a permaculturalists renovators dream.. :D An from here I want to undertake an internship an achieve a diploma.... Anyone know of a really good place to enquire?
    Thanks guys

    Glen
     
  11. Cly

    Cly Junior Member

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    If you're talking about a PDC, I recommend going to the Crystal Waters Eco Village..just because it's such a lovely place and it's just North of Brissy.
     
  12. murray

    murray Junior Member

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  13. funkyfungus

    funkyfungus Junior Member

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    Unfortunately the term "Permaculture" has been stigmatised by members of the braoder community i think because in the begining there were a lot of inspired people who took Bills and others books and used them as a template
    instead of a guide

    but u cant do that
    Permaculture design would be just about the most complex job there is
    No two sites are the same yet the goal is always total integration

    Theres also resistance from Farmers and landcare specialist who see permaculture enthusiasts as amateurs and often dangerous ones particularly regarding weed introduction

    In some cases this has been justified - take Inga edulis for example in Nthn NSW
    Inga was one of the species promoted early on in permaculture as a fast growing pioneer species.
    however its done a little too well it seems fo everybodies liking and the rewards are not always apparent from this tree

    The same ca be said when the techniques published are applied to other climates - often leading to the response that 'permaculture doesnt work in my climate'
    Particularly arid climates have seen this as the mandala garden and sheet mulching got exported from the subtropics to there its doesnt always do so well and so people lose the vision

    some people took the bull by the horns though
    Julie firth of Yilgarn traders in waggrakine WA has really taken to the advancemnet of dryland permaculture
    For example its was found mandala beds lose efficiency as they exapdn in size and other pattrens lik ethe herringbone are more efficient
    also sheet mulching in areas of low rainfall is usnsuitable as the limited water never reaches the soil! the mucl can tak eyear sto degrade and encourage buildups of slaters that attack fresh growth during late autumn

    The use of native species over exotics comes through also
    for ecxample the tagasaste is a good textbook species but it was found rabits, pest and management options made native alogyne sp. (malvaceae), suckering acacias and Siris tree (albizzia lebeck) better optons for irrigated windbreaks with endemics in the fields like casuarina, and acacia.

    Especially in these hard environments its foolhardy to teach too soon
    its also arrogant to attempt to teach to locals who know many things you dont.
    the preaching outsider is a image we can do without.
    I think i f you go to anew area its better to be the student learning all you can about ecology, local land usage practices, climate and social networks
    as well as having your own demsntration gardens
    Be revolutionary but be sure you can show the results before you preach it!
    weve got to be fully committed and be able to back up our calims after all what we are trying to do is huge! change the world! Its a big responsibility
     
  14. urbanpermasuccess

    urbanpermasuccess Junior Member

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    changing attitudes locally

    Hi im another new member and am attempting to change attitudes in relation to urban landscapes on the far north coast nsw. Ive used "native", "organic food gardens", in my business description with little impact.

    But with the current situation of drought in western nsw, qld, vic etc., and the ever increasing transport problem on our highways i am confident that many coastal australians will take up the responsibility of growing their own food. with the rainfall we have had on the coast recently from low pressure systems out to sea, it is increasingly evident that this is the best place to grow vegetable crops in australia. Household/community production and consumption is the best way to overcome our current crisis.

    ps.....the last thing we need is a flood of chinese imports lacking in flavour and nutrition......lets eat locally !!!!!!!!
    keep growing folks!! see you later :) dunc!!
     
  15. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Proffesional Permaculturists

    Hi Back again to say a bit more on this subject..
    (1)I too wish to go Pro with my permaculture Garden.Besides convincing new
    permies.Ive had problems getting myself certified as a Permie via the courses that are required to be taken before one can use the word "Permaculture" Untill i can solve my un certification...."does anyone out there do these on a one on one basis"????

    (2) Are we all a mob of dreamers who think that they got any real chance of converting the rest of the planet into Permaculture :lol:

    (3)We agree that the "sheep" follow the farmer around....Time the old Farmer retired.Now we are the new farmers farmers of our own land for Love not for Profit.

    (4)With all the Possible ways of dying other then the"other types".
    eg Volcanos,Earthquakes,Freindly Fire,murder,Climate change,Tsnamis,
    Im surprised anyone ever goes out their front door at all. 8)
     
  16. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    "(2) Are we all a mob of dreamers who think that they got any real chance of converting the rest of the planet into Permaculture?"

    Granted, it probably took a lot of advertising, but it sure didn't take long for the pesticide/herbicide/chemical fertilizer folks to talk all those farmers that used natural methods into paying for their goods, maybe ten years?

    I guess we just need the right approach. But do you think that cheaper, friendlier, safer is good enough these days?

    The biggest problem with Permaculture is that people have to actually THINK about it. I don't know about Aussieland, but here in the U.S., the people are NOT taught to think for themselves, but to do as they're told. Pathetic, really.

    Sue
     
  17. derek

    derek Junior Member

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    Fascinating topic - I'm glad it was raised as it has been something I have been mulling over for a long time. In particular, I've been wondering how permaculture could be made more attractive to wider slice of the population.

    I think some of the ideas raised in the thread, such as the need for us all to 'lead by example' and thinking about alternative labels, are useful.

    I guess from my own experience, whenever I try to talk to family and friends about 'permaculture' their eyes glaze over. While, if give them a home-grown tomato, potato or lettuce to eat or talk about mulching or water tanks, then they become interested.

    While I understand it can be frustrating that the majority of people don't seem to care or to think about building a sustainable environment, we have to remember that for many people with children, a mortgage and a boss that expects more and more overtime, there are so many other things that they have to think about.

    I would suggest that, to begin with, we really need to break down 'permaculture' into bite-sized chunks (for example mulching techniques, heritage fruits, seed saving, water saving methods, organic food etc) that can be more easily communicated and adopted. Eventually, as people incorporate more of these elements into their everyday lives, people will either have a taste of what permaculture is about and be attracted to the more complex elements or, they will be content with learning 'new ways' of gardening or growing their own food, or caring for chickens, or building an energy efficient houses and will be practicing permaculture (in a limited form) by default.
     

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