The Permaculture Institute Teacher Register is no longer

Discussion in 'Jobs, projects, courses, training, WWOOFing, volun' started by permaculture.biz, Mar 24, 2010.

  1. permaculture.biz

    permaculture.biz Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    https://cli.re/RWPlace
    Location:
    https://cli.re/RWPlace
    Home Page:
    Climate:
    Global
    G'day,

    This afternoon we received notification from Lisa Mollison of The Permaculture Institute that they have decided to no longer have a Teacher Registration system and that all of our stock of Permaculture Design Certificates are to be returned.

    I have since posted a copy of this notification on our PhotoLog with the link being as follows: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/UztLA7J6OwJXq_kRhcioKQ?feat=directlink

    This is a significant action and is very disappointing on a number of levels.

    All the best,

    Darren J.
    Doherty
    (formerly Registered Teacher #29!)
     
  2. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,922
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Crikey, Daz!

    That's an interesting development, to say the least. Oh well, looks like we will all just have to hitch up our pants (skirts, kilts, sarongs, loin cloths...) and continue to do what we do best - teach and learn, learn and teach.

    Thanks for the info,

    Mark (former student of Darren Doherty - Bendigo PDC 2005).
     
  3. Burra Maluca

    Burra Maluca Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Any chance you could explain the full significance of this??? Does this mean that no-one is a registered teacher any more? And if so does that mean that anyone can teach permaculture? Or no-one?

    Also, is every (ex) teacher going to have to return their stock of certificates? And what about people who are already part way through courses? My son is working his way streadily through an online course and it would be a bummer not to be able to get his certificate now.
     
  4. PeterFD

    PeterFD Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Hi Burra Maluca

    I’m sorry to say that I don’t know the answer to your question. However, I was very interested that your son is doing his PC course on-line.

    I’m currently adapting my farm to a permaculture but simply don’t have the time or money to go on a traditional course.

    Could I impose upon your time for a moment to ask where your son has registered for his on-line course?

    Many thanks for any help you are able to offer,

    Peter
     
  5. Burra Maluca

    Burra Maluca Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Here's the link to the course we're doing.

    https://https://permaculturevisions.com/#courses

    I have no idea how the latest development from the Permaculture Institute is going to effect things though. We're both enjoying the course very much, but we're doing it very very slowly to make sure we're doing lots of practical stuff and really getting the feel of what we're doing rather than just rushing through the theory. I'm wondering now if we'd have been better off rushing it to make sure we got the full PDC certifiacate at the end.
     
  6. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,456
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Farm manager/ educator
    Location:
    Hunter Valley New South Wales
    Home Page:
    Climate:
    warm temperate - some frost - changing every year
    I'm sure that for most people the knowledge is worth a lot more than the piece of paper - the nation is more resilient than to be overly affected by this - but it is interesting.
     
  7. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I have a horticulture degree, I'm not sure it is worth the paper it is written on. It probably helped me get a job or two in The Man's world. But who wants a job in The Man's world?
     
  8. PeterFD

    PeterFD Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Hi Burra Maluca

    Thanks for the course link, I’ll give it a try.

    It would be a great pity if the whole concept of the PC is going to be lost.

    I had previously read on the forum that the whole permaculture network was self-supporting and self-maintaining. That nobody was actually in control and therefore nobody could make this type of unilateral decision that affects so many people and may hold-back permaculture development………..just at the very moment its going to be needed the most.

    It’s certainly a wake-up call to find out that the Permaculture Institute has a bureaucratic and hierarchical structure. I suppose its always going to be the little guy at the bottom, struggling to make a difference, that gets stamped on by the big guy at the top……..no explanations or reasons necessary.

    It would appear, for the moment, we all need to keep the faith and just hope that whatever power-struggle is going on inside the Permaculture Institute is resolved within the ethical framework that Permaculture is supposedly based upon……….either that or they can check-out Mark’s explanation of “Denialism” and its possible uses.

    Perhaps it’s just the dream that keeps us going and the rest is just too much to expect!
     
  9. Burra Maluca

    Burra Maluca Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It's just that having paid a not inconsiderable sum of money in the assumption that it would give a certificate that would entitle us to use the word 'permaculture' and to take pride of place in my son's portfolio (he's home-schooled and the first time he's worked for a certificate), it seems very 'off' that the plug is pulled half way through the course. He's busy learning about ethics and care of people and then the very people who are supposedly mentoring his education drop him like a hot coal. Perhaps a little bit of notice would have been appropriate so he would have had the chance to finish off the course? There must be other people in the same position, not to mention people who have signed up for PDCs elsewhere.

    The knowledge certainly *is* worth more than the paper, but I would probably have just bought a load of books and videos, at far less expense, if I'd known they were going to do this. To be fair I think something probably did need shaking up. My other half likened the system to pyramid selling - you do the PDC then go out and recruit more people to take a PDC, but this seems a bit extreme.

    Come on Permaculture Institute - tell us what's going on and start playing fair!
     
  10. geoff

    geoff Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The letter indicates that individual permaculture teaching organisations/people are now responsible for creating their own certificates. It states that it's going to let the free market do the quality control rather than the PI doing it, ie if the students completing a particular course are well skilled then certificates from that organisation will be respected, if all the students are duds then a certificate from that organisation wont carry any weight in the market.
     
  11. joaovox

    joaovox Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "...it's going to let the free market do the quality control rather than the PI doing it ..."
    this makes sense to me!
    Thank you Geoff for this note and blessings from Portugal


     
  12. PeterFD

    PeterFD Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    When Darren Doherty (Permaculture.biz), Senior Member, first posted the Permaculture Institutes decision on the forum he stated; “This is a significant action and is very disappointing on a number of levels.”

    This, I feel, is the least that can be said.

    At a time when humanity has possibly its last chance for survival, to place the “Quality Control” for permaculture in the hands of the “Free-Market” must feature as the most irresponsible action possible.

    Permaculture is based not only upon sound ecological principles, its based upon ETHICS.

    The Free-Market has no ethics.

    The cornerstone ethics of Permaculture are taught as; Earth Care; People Care; and Fair Share.

    The Free Market has no concern for earth care, little concern for people care, and absolutely no acceptance of fair share – its based purely on GREED.

    To suggest that “dud” students with Permaculture Certificates from bad organisations will suddenly be recognised and avoided must count as sick joke of the year (and its only March!)

    One dud student with a Permaculture Certificate is bad enough in terms of undermining the positive and healing potential of Permaculture. To suggest that ten’s, hundreds, or possibly thousands of dud PC students are going to be churned out by Free Market Permaculture Organisations risks undermining all the successes and all the good properly PI quality controlled students that already exist.

    Permaculture has gained respect not only within Universities, but also national and international aide agencies. But who will these aide agencies turn to for a list of “non-dud” permaculturists? Possibly the World Bank or the International Monetary Fund? Or possibly “respectable” Free-Market enterprises like BP, Shell Oil or Blackwater security?

    The Free-Market is so inefficient at quality control that we have entered a global financial crisis of unprecedented scale, resulting in trillions of dollars being lost. The net result of this greed fed incompetence is that governments around the world are cutting billions of dollars off Social Welfare, Education, and health budgets (to mention the primary casualties).

    The rise of “Disaster Capitalism” has created a positive feeding frenzy within the free market in response to the millions, sometimes billions of dollars raised to help those who have been hit by climate change. The homeless, the sick and injured, and the dying are left at the roadside whilst disaster relief aid floods into the pockets of Free-Market “consultants”.

    This current decision by the PI to open the quality control of the PC’s to the Free-Market must rank amongst the biggest gifts received in the last decade – including the war in Iraq.

    As climate change starts to really hit, the amount of money available will be unimaginable, and the door is now open for Permaculture, once the knight in shining armour, to become just another means of siphoning-off the aide money for the banks and the rich.

    I suppose the only hope is that the Universities will step-in to provide the quality control. Inept as they may be at times, at least they have standards that are maintained and ensured by the process of external examiners.

    That is, of course, unless the Permaculture Institute changes its mind and decides that maintaining quality control in Permaculture is worth the effort????

    If there is a god, perhaps he will work the miracle needed!

    Peter
     
  13. Interesting comments PeterFD






    .
     
  14. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,456
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Farm manager/ educator
    Location:
    Hunter Valley New South Wales
    Home Page:
    Climate:
    warm temperate - some frost - changing every year
    The free market they speak of is a market catered to by graduates of the PDC - people such as we at Purple Pear who live by the ethics of Permaculture and as such should continue to produce quality outcomes without the register. There is too little money in providing this education (within the ethic) to attract the high flyers with lowered ethic.
    As I said before the nation is more resilient.
    Having said that - I think it would be great if Darren would expand on his observation and the background to the decission as he sees it.
    regards Mark
     
  15. ThePainkiller

    ThePainkiller New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    this only affects those who have taken teacher training courses correct? does the permaculture design certificate still mean anything?
     
  16. Burra Maluca

    Burra Maluca Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It also affects all those who have paid for but not yet been issued with a certificate. I really do think that anyone who has already signed up and paid for a pdc should be issued with an 'approved' one, like they signed up for. I'd still like to know who is and who isn't allowed to teach permaculture now that the register is no longer. And can we call what we are doing 'permaculture' if we don't have an approved certificate? And what about the diploma?
     
  17. Geoff Lawton

    Geoff Lawton Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Teachers Registration

    Hi All
    we are now working on a new system through our institute the Permaculture Research Institute and we will be up and running very soon, things are now moving.
     
  18. sampsms

    sampsms Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hello from Meg and April - part of the team at PermacultureVisions. All organisations have politics. Those that are open to debate and development are robust and sustainable. Playing Fair is an important part of the permaculture culture but hasn't always happened. Fortunately, the few people who haven't played fair are now doing other things. Ethics is everything, this is the decade of enlightenment in Business Ethics. There have been far bigger obstacles to our teaching project than the loss of a stamped written support from Tagari but I digress. (BTW, all current students have a certificate ready for them, all future students will have a new certificate but the same reputation and we will be introducing a graduate register so you can see who are graduates of our course.)
    Many people now value our course and the fact that it is in 48 countries makes it truly unique. Our course notes draw on the experience and input of these students and graduates and it has become a collective knowledge base that we are proud custodians of.
    The knowledge is a treasure, the PDC certificate is an honour, and the comeraderie of PDC graduates is fortifying in troubled times. We started against the odds, we proved you can learn online, we struggled to devise exercises about a complex design issues in plain language and with everyday thinking tools. We now have amazing graduates who are out there doing permaculture. We are prepared to help this unique teaching project continue to flourish. April at PermacultureVisions.com - please excuse me for not writing before, i've been busy walking the talk and trying desperately to meet the sudden influx of scholarship seekers.
     
  19. geoff

    geoff Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    PeterFD, I appreciate where you're coming from, but I think of all the things that ever fell into the grasp of the free market Permaculture is the one that will do the best. I would hesitate to put a percentage on it, but I imagine it would be a sizeable proportion of people who have anything to do with Permaculture actually passionately believe in the ethics and principles that go along with the technical and hands on stuff, this will serve to curb greed, if not in the practitioners and teachers, at least in the students who will shy away from such greed on instinct.

    It's a fairly tight knit community too, so if someone offers a course, uneducated and un-certificated folks like myself can readily see what they've been up to, what experience they've had, what works they've done, etc, etc. You can usually walk onto their place of education and get a feel for whether you're going to be wasting your money, I'd imagine. The fact that many of the legends of the movement tart themselves around various courses run by newer organisations also helps to give us an idea of who's worth visiting :) (though I should probably include a disclaimer that I'm sure they offer no endorsement or binding warranty on said involvement and any inference of quality from said appearances comes down to the expectations and/or illusions of the inferer rather than the inferee)

    Certification is a very grey area, even with a governing body.

    What's to prevent me from designing my own backyard and saying it's permaculture (which I believe it would be if I tried to follow what I've learned of it)? Yet I've no certificate from a governing body. Things could get worse, because a neighbour or three might like what I've done and want me to design their yards. According to the principles of the free market in which the idea of certification are based, I should really decline their request and direct them to a properly qualified and certified professional in the field, shouldn't I? If I can't resist the urge I should certainly refrain from passing on any knowledge as that would be an uncertified crime!

    Certification is ultimately to prove that one market service or good is more worthy of purchase than another, so saying it doesn't fit within the free market makes little sense (although I do appreciate the drive to preserve quality, that appreciation does not negate the fact that it's a market driven and based concept.) In a "free world" rather than "free market" world, it should all come down to visible skill and past masterworks as proof of quality. Sadly our haste through life prevents us from appreciating these sorts of things, so we need to rely on a piece of paper that is ultimately someone else's word that a person was up to their standards.
     
  20. sunnyslopes

    sunnyslopes Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Right on April!

    I am sure that the demand for qualified instructors will compel institutions to create and maintain PDC certifications and Permaculture Design Instructor Certifications based on the blueprint provided by Tagari and PRI Australia.

    Just as I am sure there will be significant green-washing to put the stamp of permaculture on many things and businesses to gain customers.

    One of the first times I saw the word permaculture was in a real estate listing describing "Permaculture Home" because it had mulch instead of a lawn.

    Personally I am excited at the prospect of certification for myself because it would be a significant personal milestone.

    Albert J
     

Share This Page

-->