the great vegetarian tragedy

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by janahn, Nov 26, 2009.

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  1. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    I like vegetarian food. I also like free range grass feed meat and chickens raised on insects and green pick.

    however the bizarre thing about the animal liberation movement, founded 40 years by Peter Singer, is that since that time, the number of mammals and birds confined to intensive factory farming systems has increased, perhaps at a guess 20 or 40 fold.

    and those who are opposed to such systems sit back and do nothing, expecting others to do it for them,

    the only solution is to invest capital and do something better than what the broad range of farmers are doing today.

    www.janahn.com.au
     
  2. Dalzieldrin

    Dalzieldrin Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    should we also consider farming humans for meat?

    If not, why not?
     
  3. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    it is against the law

    i do like the idea of natural cemeteries, where our red blood becomes green, consumed by birds and possums, scattered across mountain and plain.

    www.janahn.com.au
     
  4. Dalzieldrin

    Dalzieldrin Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    nice dodge!

    let me rephrase:

    should we change the law so that we can farm humans for meat: if not, why not?
     
  5. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    i need time to think that one over, in the meantime,

    should we eliminate all carnivorous animals. wild dogs and cats in Australia could be at that top of the list, followed by possum, tigers, lions...etc

    https://www.janahn

    ps i do like the idea of allowing humans to become bio-char vs ashes from a crematorium. then we could be put to good use in bamboo plantations?

    well of course if the law is changed, lets farm humans, however, i think the tide of humanity will oppose your preposterous idea.
     
  6. Dalzieldrin

    Dalzieldrin Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    the sooner every last cat is expunged from this continent the better

    as for preposterous: I'll take it you're answering no to the first part 'and then some', but you've not answered the second part...why not? or to relate it directly to your response - why is it preposterous?
     
  7. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    alright Socrates, what about the carnivores mentioned before? should we exclude them, and let wild dogs rip sheep to death ? and let lions maul people in africa, let alone antelope ?

    if you can not work out why the majority of people would find the farming of humans outrageous then your mindset is beyond my comprehension.

    www.janahn.com.au
     
  8. Mungbeans

    Mungbeans Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    Farmed humans would *know* some day they would be slaughtered.
     
  9. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    No! Because Lions can be fed other meat species and personal consumption would be cannibalism...
     
  10. Dalzieldrin

    Dalzieldrin Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    Socrates ??? - b'gad that's the best laugh i've had all day - *hits printscreen* that's gotta be worth printing out and framing!

    I see you've played dodge-the-question before!

    If you can't answer the question "why is farming humans preposterous?" then just say so, I'll understand.
     
  11. Dalzieldrin

    Dalzieldrin Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    nice!

    what about if we lobotomised them - surgically or chemically? A GM version that had no sense of its fate?

    what about a cow in a slaughterhouse who's next in line for the chop and sees it's mates' fates - does it realise what is going to happen to it? we tolerate this, don't we (okay, yes, a lot of us don't...but you see my point?)...so why should the knowing-they'll-die argument apply to hoomanz?
     
  12. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    Thats just careless practices... even i take one rabbit at a time into a different shed when i'm preparing them for the table. The alternative is like a line of of people for the gallows in old England.
     
  13. Dalzieldrin

    Dalzieldrin Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    fair enough - so we return to the question: what about a lobotomised hooman etc


    Any chance I can get my ID changed to Socrates?

    or maybe janahn-calls-me-Socrates?
     
  14. Mungbeans

    Mungbeans Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    Just to prove https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law Godwin's Law....

    Wouldn't the 'lobotomised' line of reasoning logically lead to the conclusion that the mass murder of intellectually disabled people during the holocaust was not so bad because many of them weren't aware of their ultimate fate before their death? If the nazis had been re-cycling the bodies then their use as food would have made it ok? Hmmmm...

    Of course what you are really driving at is to make us ask, "Why are humans considered separate and apart from other animals, so as to make them having special rights denied other creatures?" Good question. In fact I've read several books that ask this same question. I can't summarize them very well because I'm not good like that, but I do recommend this site:

    https://brianoconnor.typepad.com/animal_ ... hts_t.html - discusses at length the core assumption behind the animal rights (as opposed to animal welfare) movement.

    Ken Wilbur in one of his books (I can't remember which one) discusses human consciousness, the development of consciousness and why it makes humans a 'special case'. He particular explores how the 'depth' of a sentient being places its needs above that of a sentient being with lesser 'depth'. This mp3 is of Ken Wilbur being interviewed on this topic. Very interesting:
    https://diydharma.org/audio/downloa...lve_Evaluating_The_Depth_Of_Sentient_Life.mp3
     
  15. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    My fellow Socraterians,

    My concern is to eliminate needless suffering and the squanderous misuse of energy use today in modern farming.

    My only concievable solution is mentioned above. If it takes the combined capital of "communal minicipalists" then that can only be good for every one living today. if it takes the efforts of an individual to achieve a better life for farm animals, then that must be also good....

    and my fellow Socraterians, I say this to you today...I am sure you can do better than many others...just make sure you do something.

    https://www.janahn.com.au
     
  16. Dalzieldrin

    Dalzieldrin Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    yes, I'm afraid that, technically you've godwin'd yourself...does that mean, according to same law, I can can claim victory? :-D

    but we could sidestep the ickiness of the lobotomy line of reasoning by trying something that, for a great many people, is sure to generate a very visceral "oh well, in that case, sure, go ahead!" - slaughter and downstream processing of paedophiles


    bingo - that's the bike path I was freewheeling down!

    someone mentioned peter singer? here's an interview with richard dawkins, it's been a while since i've watched it but from what i can remember they explore the idea that the fact that we're evolved knocks us off the pedastool of being entitled to eat other beasties (hence...why not eat us?)
     
  17. Dalzieldrin

    Dalzieldrin Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    you know that Socrates had a personal assistant?

    must've been great having your own Socratery


    btw- PM'd you about your website
     
  18. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    if i were a plant i would have some of you people put up against the "discrimination board" why is it ok to eat plants ?

    we may all conveniently justify what we do.

    however, until my next new post, sometime in the future, i will wonder, does the future exist ?

    https://www.janahn.com.au

    ps oh, have any of you opposed native title on the grounds that we are encouraging people to hunt animals ?
     
  19. Mungbeans

    Mungbeans Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    Because plants don't have sufficient consciousness to run discrimination boards. If they did then it would be wrong to kill and eat them.
     
  20. Dalzieldrin

    Dalzieldrin Junior Member

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    Re: the great vegetarian tragedy

    oh...why did you fall for his trap young padawan?? :-D


    define consciousness
     
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