the great bill mollison copyright swindle

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by janahn, Nov 29, 2009.

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  1. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Re: the great bill mollison copyright swindle

    It would help if we knew what you were talking about...
     
  2. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: 'permaculture' copyright

    if i am wrong i will apologize.
     
  3. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    'permaculture' copyright.

    Eric, it probably doesn't matter what this thread is about. Public accusations of swindling and fraud are not something that belong on this forum IMO. Most likely the Mollisons wouldn't prosecute the Lawtons ;-) but nevertheless...


    Or, given this is a discussion forum, you could explain. In NZ the law says that if something is deemed copyright then there are rules governing use of what is copyrighted. I doubt it's that much different in Oz. Like I said earlier, either the word is copyrighted (and upheld as such by your state) or it isn't.

    I still don't know what the legal status is of the word 'permaculture'*. You have made some claims but refused to back them up which makes them look like your beliefs not fact.
     
  4. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Re: the great bill mollison copyright swindle

    The problem is pebble i could lock the thread or delete it and he'll only start another one.

    Then the only option would be to temporarily ban him... i don't want to do that. If he has an issue with Bill he should take it up with him directly.
     
  5. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: the great bill mollison copyright swindle

    not only will I apologize, I will put up $5000.00 to any special Pc Project that the contributors to this forum vote upon ( all 3 4 6 0r 7 of you so far)
     
  6. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    copyright

    There is a good activist tradition of making accusations in public because it forces the accusee to defend themselves if they want to do anything about it.

    But internet forums are a form of publishing, and as such the Lawtons (I assume they are the legal owners of this forum) are ultimately legally liable for what gets posted here (or allowed to stay here).


    Leo, I hear that this is a really important issue for you. Some of us here can't follow what you are talking about. I understand the general issue about copyrighting the pc word (and I disagree with you in as far as I understand your position). But the personal stuff that's happened between you and the Mollisons and the Lawtons is not something that can be dealt with here. None of us know what happened, and even if we did it's not the right place to talk this through.
     
  7. newcroft

    newcroft Junior Member

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    Re: the great bill mollison copyright swindle

    I'd save the $5,000 for your legal costs (for starters).
     
  8. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: 'permaculture' copyright.

    we are in australia.
     
  9. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: the great bill mollison copyright swindle

    i would prefer to give it to the Palestinians.

    Leo
     
  10. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    copyright

    If the accusations were about anyone else, say an Australian politician or other prominent person, I would be urging you to do just that (delete threads and put someone on a temporary ban). The likelihood of the PRI being prosecuted is low, but the risk is still there.

    I agree the issue should be taken up elsewhere.
     
  11. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Re: 'permaculture' copyright.

    There is no useful discussion or debate if you selectively quote to score points. You are fully aware that I know that you and Bill and the copyright issue are in Oz, because I've been saying that. Which begs the question of what is your motivation here?
     
  12. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: copyright

    co-incidentally you talk to the .... or .... and they dont talk, otherise this issue would be resolved. I will apologise if required. Leo
     
  13. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Re: the great bill mollison copyright swindle

    OK, i'm going to lock this thread until tomorrow, unless bill or Michael get her before me, i'll unlock it tomorrow...

    An ethical forum member would leave this until tomorrow... i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

    Hopefully this can be sorted out elsewhere... with the parties involved. Slander is a serious thing.
     
  14. bernado soares

    bernado soares Junior Member

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    Re: the great bill mollison copyright swindle

    I feel a kind of shame for you Leo,why attack Lisa in such a public way.If you have umbridge in the way in which the Mollisons are attempting to protect copyright then it is best handled in the confines of private conversations.I for one find it offensive that an upstart like yourself, would dare attack someone who has given you the chance to be part of permaculture.If you have a valid P.D.C then it came from the Manual which Bill wrote.It was his efforts and the efforts of the early pioneers thorny and strong that broke the ground and made the ground fertile so that others may follow.Your claims of activism pale in contrast to Bill Mollison,Geoff,Rosemary,David,Robyn ,Max and the multitude that have come before you.
    That you dare call yourself a design institute and wallow in the grandiosity of your endevours, has often amused me but this is taking it too far.
    It is always funny to see the sychophant attack the master when he believes he is strong enough,and then to see the same sychophant humbled in his own mediocrity and obscurity when he realizes that his boldness has no reward other than the loathing of his peers.
    I have often noted you real lack of understanding of matters botanical and have often thought of a sad and lonely man paralyzed by his own delusions,quite obviously ruined by addiction and these posts of yours go to prove it.
    I am telling you now Leo that you have made an asshole of yourself,that you are a disgrace and that you dont have the right to use permaculture in your name copy right or not because the plain fact is that you need to have a certain amount of self pride and self respect to take the permaculture path and so far as i have seen you dont posess that.
    You once asked Buff Orpington to state his permaculture credentials,I would like to know who issued you with your PDC and Diploma so that we could ask for them to be revoked because permaculture dosnt need this type of pathetic insecure assualt on it's greatest champion.SWindle the only swindle here is you claiming to be a permaculture teacher capable of delivering a PDC.I would'nt trust you to call in a pair of ducks with a handful of grain,good grief I think I have seen it all now!Why not have a go at Geoff Lawton tomorrow I am pretty sure that you will find something to piss and moan about in his 25 years of work............oh Leo your a wanker.Please Leo dont bother replying with the same bullshit about copyright infringment and you being a public activist because from my point of view Bill and Dave do own the right to the word Permaculture and if you have to pay then you do_Once more what a dickhead .

    Best wishes
    Bernado Soares.
     
  15. Fernando Pessoa

    Fernando Pessoa Junior Member

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    Re: the great bill mollison copyright swindle

    Dear me,I had to get in on this one.
    Usually Bernado is pretty passive but when he called me tonight about your post ,Leo(wanker) he was as upset as I had seen him since they named an ex Nazi as the pope.
    See thats a pretty big statement,when you make big statement you usually back them up with something sound or people take you for a total idiot.
    So from one total idiot to another you are the master of of us all and I bow before you because you have truly made a pretty big call out of a pretty big mouth.I just have to respect that but thats about the only thing I respect in your argument.Have some respect for the Mollisons and the Lawtons you buffoon.
    Fernando
     
  16. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: the great bill mollison copyright swindle

    i must be wrong. I apologise. I am happy to give 5000 australian dollars to the proposed Jordan PC convergence. I did previously mention Palestine.

    leo

    and you are right! this issue is out of hand however, with all good intent, i am sure it can end with a beneficial conclusion.

    any item considered slanderous should be withdrawn.

    however if this thread stops any person from claiming ownership of the word PC in the future, then this debate may only be considered a good thing.
    the end result I believe is as Bill Mollison designed it to be, PC is free and nobody owns it. it is free.

    it is up to all PC people to ensure that any potential misuse of "claims of ownership" is stomped on immediately
     
  17. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: the great bill mollison copyright swindle

    will the moderator please delete the republished items i have deleted

    thank you. leo
     
  18. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Re: the great bill mollison copyright swindle

    How do we know which items to delete if some of your posts are still intact ?

    It would take hours to go through everything.
     
  19. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    copyright

    Just delete the whole thread. If we want to have a discussion about copyright of the word 'permaculture' we can start a new thread without all the other stuff.
     
  20. newcroft

    newcroft Junior Member

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    Re: the great bill mollison copyright swindle

    Delete. Delete. Delete.

    I'm disappointed the moderators allowed this incoherent and slanderous conversation to continue. This type of language would not be given a second on most forums. At least Leo has now edited some of his worst posts.

    I'd like to see a new thread where Leo can tell us (take a deep breath Leo) clearly and coherently what he is on about. Leo, could you answer the questions I put to you on the first page here.
     
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