Ten bucks a litre

Discussion in 'General chat' started by Grahame, Aug 1, 2013.

  1. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Some 'key findings' responding to the issue of 'sustainability' (and pertinent to this line of discourse) from the recently released Australian Government State of Australian Cities 2013 report (pp. 6-7):

    Heat
    • Based on current trends, heat-related deaths in Australian cities, especially Perth and Brisbane, are predicted to increase.
    • Policy responses to previous heat events were tested during the record-breaking summer of 2012–13, when Australia registered the hottest September to March period on record, the hottest summer on record, the hottest month on record, the hottest day on record and the longest national-scale heatwave. It was also the hottest summer on record for Australian sea-surface temperatures.
    • Despite these records, most Australian cities did not exceed their long term average highest monthly maximum and minimum temperatures during the summer months of 2012–13. There were also significant differences in rainfall, particularly between Queensland coastal cities (many of which received record rainfall), and southern cities, some of which received hardly any rain during this period.
    • The Bureau of Meteorology has developed an improved method of recording and predicting heat events. These are now able to be compared and mapped using a measure known as the ‘excess heat factor’ (EHF) measure.
    • The liveability of Australia’s cities will be affected by how their sustainability is managed. Many cities are making significant progress in introducing of vegetative (including plants, trees, open green spaces and even forests) at various scales across cities – from buildings to districts and metropolitan regions – to reduce the UHI effect and thereby increase liveability and reduce energy use.

    Household energy
    • Since 2008, residential energy use has accounted for 12 per cent of the nation’s total consumption.
    • Energy demand for space heating and cooling is projected to increase in the coming decades. Factors influencing increased demand include houses with the largest average floor areas in the world, the decreasing occupancy rate of dwellings and the increasing use of whole-house heating and cooling systems.
    • Airconditioner use in the residential sector has increased significantly, with possession almost doubling between 1994 and 2004, rising from an average of 0.395 units to 0.762 units per household. This is projected to increase even further. The rapid growth in air conditioner possession has effectively overshadowed any energy consumption reductions gained by improved efficiency over the same period.
    • Appliances account for 23 per cent of Australia’s residential sector energy consumption, with electricity being the predominant power source used. Attempts to reduce appliance-related energy consumption by the residential sector have focused on achieving greater product efficiency. The overall gains achieved by these efficiency initiatives have, however, been offset by the increased number and variety of appliances in homes.

    Transport energy
    • Nearly 40 per cent of total national energy use is expended in moving people and freight. The transport sector uses 73 per cent of Australia’s total liquid fuel, with over half of that being used by road transport.
    • The transport sector also contributes the largest proportion of average household carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions at almost 42 per cent. Light passenger vehicle use alone accounts for 35 per cent of Australia’s average household emissions, by far the largest overall component of the transport sector’s emissions.
    • Energy use in light passenger vehicles is relatively well documented, but there is more limited publicly available information for mass transit systems making comparison of energy use between modes in Australia difficult. The potential energy efficiency savings of urban mass transit systems are considerable; however, further information in this area will be needed to inform public policy decisions.

    Waste
    • Australia generated 54 million tonnes of waste in 2009–10. Forty seven per cent of this was recovered domestically, 46 per cent went to landfill and the remaining seven per cent was exported.
    • Waste worth $2.4 billion formed one per cent of Australia’s exports in 2011–12. Eighty two per cent of this was ferrous metals, gold, copper and aluminium.
    • Australia’s waste management industry has been valued at $9.5 billion with income from waste products valued at $4.5 billion annually.
     
  2. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    MikeS, we live in South Australia. Perhaps the fact that we have about 1 in 5 households on solar has driven down electricity demand and driven up costs?
     
  3. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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  4. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    LOL at Len asking for non subsidised power, while not questioning who paid for the coal infrastructure, the power stations and the rail and the ports and the who subsidises the diesel in the mining industry.

    Its the tax payer Len

    As he keeps demanding they dont get charged for destroying the environment and the health of current and future generations so he can have the delusion of "cheap" power.
     
  5. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    I think you'll find his argument is that they are not destroying the environment and that the whole CO2 thing is a scam. Or at least that is my understanding of it. Len? I'm not sure what his take is on the Peak Oil thing. Len, how do you stand on Peak Oil?
     
  6. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    Is the high cancer rates around coal fired power stations a scam too ?
     
  7. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    If someone has gone out a through their parameters say that cancer is higher around power stations in support of shutting down generators it is then very likely a theoretical scam.

    peak oil is another of the doomsayers tools. do you really think these things out? i credit all here with intelligence but is it herd intelligence maybe?

    if oil runs out we have nothing in play to keep our reliant on corporate greed society going, Dubai built holiday castles in droves, how would people get there to use the holiday space? a row boat?

    how would we transport ourselves even over short distances (a must for older people) to shop in empty shops for whatever super expensive food is available, then get mugged on the way home, mugging is becoming a way of life down south already, the power of the gun.

    there would be no plastics to make solar panels and associated technology, how would one dig up the raw material get it to a smelter, overseas (the greens answer to everything), at the very max you could stretch solar panel efficiency working life to 40 years but batteries and inverters etc,., all start running out at 10 years, and why would you want solar power, you'll only need hot water (oh! in case you have forgotten all reticulated systems suburb by suburb can be turned off at will be the administrator), all controlled from the comfort of their desk. same with ac power.

    so mass unemployment no tractors running, no cars or white goods being made, common grahame this is what the doomsayer are wishing on us. where's the common sense in all that.

    and even if aus' did get rid of 100% of its 1.6% of CO2 input, what difference to the world? what difference to aus? after all by the doomsayers calculations CO2 is around 25% of the total atmosphere, china puts in 22% of that and plans to do so for a very long time, by ensuring they have heaps of our coal to burn for affordable power and manufacturing (ours all if which is nearly off shore now), german's pay around 34 cents a KWH for power, they subsidise industry to keep employment stable and be competitive on the world market, why should the low earners subsidise corporate greed? same here solar power has subsidies if it isn't feel good stuff then why don't the fans pay their own way.

    electric cars popypoop, what happens when their usable life runs out with no onshore manufacturing and no plastics or rubber what then? walk.

    and as grahame and others (who give no support to me) can attest we need to repair the habitat/environment and we need to make the greedy pay to do that, of course science would waste time doing a self indulgent research to try and prove that a healthy habitat would mean less heavier than air CO2. they are on such shaky ground, they say our CO2 is getting better yet there is no change (sounds terribly like the gossamer suit of that medieval emperor)

    len
     
  8. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Fair enough Len. Maybe you're right.

    I can only go by what I see...

    The waterways are in a seriously damaged state.
    The remnant forest is in decline.
    The air quality in some place is abhorrent.
    The quality of food available is laughable.
    Communities are dissolving.

    I also believe that burning fossil fuels is a big factor in all of those things regardless of the existence or not of global effects.

    The best way I can see to arrest and perhaps reverse this decline is through the implementation of sustainable practices like those we see in permaculture type designs, community building, reducing over-consumption and putting the brakes on the exponential growth of human populations. I feel like we have gone a long way down the wrong track as a society as a species. Anything we can do to shift tack towards a peaceful, equitable, clean, inclusive and sustainable society is OK by me.

    If anyone can point out an even better way than permaculture and its sustainable cousins of achieving these things and give me actual steps and implementable measures to use to go about it, I'll buy into it.

    I for one don't want to argue about all that other stuff anymore - it serves no-one.
     
  9. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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  10. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    ok grahame, i go by what isee also.

    you said:
    "The waterways are in a seriously damaged state.
    The remnant forest is in decline.
    The air quality in some place is abhorrent.
    The quality of food available is laughable.
    Communities are dissolving."

    the damege i see on water ways is complete clearing of the flood plain habitat and then mass errosion, all to do with corporate greed, not to do with CO2, as this damge is complete and nearly all done over 50 years ago.

    the decline in remnant forest and erosion the same corporate greed.

    yep air quality in china and yankee land poor in their big cities, all again corporate greed, yank cities in permanent grid lock good for creating air pollution and chine never intends to change out of tokenism.

    yep masses don't really know but food quality poor all over he place again corporate greed

    yep communities dissolving as we have no common ethics to hold us together and man doctrines worshiped by a few to place misery on the many with no real result.

    so now grahame you see the same as i do? ok what's the fix? like i said to a chat on peak oil "bring it on" i don't really think this one is thought through even by the believers.

    of course mark you can turn up links claiming doom on cancer causes, but the link is not going to give us a fix. did they test the grazing cattle feeding near those power plants (up here as i know it not many people live near them) but the beef grazes on the fall out has done for decades now.

    yep brand what i say as rubbish if that makes you feel empowered, but you have not a single fix, just answer questions with questions.

    so grahame how can your "beliefs" be more correct than mine, a belief is a belief, not a fact.

    len
     
  11. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    i've never heard of gish gallop mark so here you may be judging me by your own merits, bit below the belt hey.

    len
     
  12. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    'Gish Gallop' - that was a new one for me but now I have a name for the tactic I see used a lot. Thanks!
     
  13. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    We really waste so much time dealing with Gish Gallops its very sad and unproductive.
     
  14. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    just to get this thread back to reality heres Adolf Hitler :grin:
    [video=youtube;Zjo4bZApIFg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjo4bZApIFg[/video]
     
  15. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Godwin's Law observed. +1 point.
     
  16. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Heh, and +1 to you for knowing Godwin's Law!!
     
  17. MikeS

    MikeS Junior Member

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    Maybe, but the same thing's happened in Qld...
     
  18. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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  19. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    'Single fix': Education, preferably of the universal, free and secular variety. Coupled with the dissolution of representative democracy. Followed by the mass development of urban villages built on a social ecology platform.

    Bookchin: "What literally defines social ecology as 'social' is its recognition of the often overlooked fact that nearly all our present ecological problems arise from deep-seated social problems. Conversely, present ecological problems cannot be clearly understood, much less resolved, without resolutely dealing with problems within society. To make this point more concrete: economic, ethnic, cultural, and gender conflicts, among many others, lie at the core of the most serious ecological dislocations we face today..."
     
  20. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    I am not surprised. I suspect there are many things you have never heard of, Len. I wonder, did you read any of the peer-reviewed, scientific papers on peak oil? If so, do you still think it a 'myth'?
     

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