Ten bucks a litre

Discussion in 'General chat' started by Grahame, Aug 1, 2013.

  1. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    There is a program on the ABC1 tonight made by Dick Smith discussing the future of energy/oil, it is called Ten Bucks A Litre. Could be worth a look





     
  2. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    Great to see a PO topic on prime time TV but Dicks answer is nuclear.
    Somehow thinks nuclear has a better chance and price than renewables.
    Only if you dont calculate disposal and environmental risk,let alone supply limitations.
     
  3. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Really? Nuclear. Oh well, I'll still watch it I guess
     
  4. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    Ugh a quarter of the way in and I am seriously depressed already....
     
  5. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    yep depressing. No discussion about the perils of nuclear power. Most of the nuclear power plants in the US are leaking. None on these programs discuss how to change consumer habits at all. Just how do we run our 4 tvs, 3 air conditioners and everything else without paying more. In the too hard basket apparently. At least he had a go at it I suppose.

    Honestly we have to cut down on energy usage. Be more organised, less fussy and more aware.
     
  6. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    In the show solar on the macmasion would cost 80 g,yet a better insulated house and fridge would cost very little with a massive reduction in the solar needed....as the guy drives off in his V8 to do his $90 a week commute.
    Dick gives the pie in the sky dream of electric cars as a saviour but makes no mention of the global lithium supply and rare metal supply making that solution virtually impossible as a viable alternative too.
     
  7. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Smith's conclusion was pretty simple:

    If we are not concerned about GHG emissions, do nothing; if we are, but we don't want to pay any more, go nuclear; and if we are and we don't mind paying a bit more (easily offset by behavioural/lifestyle changes, ergo using less), go 100% renewable.

    So, what do Australians really think?

    66 per cent agree that climate change is occurring. 87 per cent of these believe both that humans are at least in part to blame and that we are already experiencing climate impacts in Australia. Only 11 per cent of those who agree climate change is occurring think it is caused solely by natural cycles.

    58 per cent think that Australia should be a leader in finding solutions on climate change, up 6 per cent from last year and on the rise for the first time since 2008, when 76 per cent shared the sentiment.

    43 per cent think that now the laws are in, they should be given at least a few years to work and only 24 per cent think that if the laws were abolished electricity prices would go down to pre-law levels.

    Last year, 65 per cent thought that they would be worse off from the carbon price, down to 53 per cent this year. In 2012, 36 per cent said they would be much worse off, this has dropped to 24 per cent.

    87 per cent placed solar energy within their top three preferred energy options. Wind was the second most preferred option with 67 per cent. Coal and nuclear are rated lowest.

    63 per cent of Australians think that responding to climate change presents a unique economic opportunity for the development and sale of renewable energy. Also, 71 per cent see new jobs and investment in clean energy resulting from Australia acting on climate change, with 64 per cent of Coalition voters sharing this view.

    40 per cent of Australians believe the Renewable Energy Target of 20 per cent by 2020 should be higher while just nine per cent believe it should be lower.

    For Coalition voters, in early June the top concerns were about Labor’s economic mismanagement, its perceived broken lies and promises generally, and Julia Gillard’s ‘carbon tax lie’. The carbon tax itself was further down a list of issues, including waste of taxpayers’ money and dislike of policies generally.

    People don’t think that industry and the media are doing a good job at addressing climate change, giving them net performance approval ratings of -17 and -20 per cent respectively, broadly similar to last year, while the Federal Government improved from minus six per cent to minus one per cent.

    Labor (26 per cent) is still seen as having a more credible climate change policy than the Coalition (19 per cent), though both are at low levels.


    Source: Climate Institute (2013) Climate of the Nation 2013

    So, what are we waiting for?

    The solution:

    Beyond Zero Emissions
     
  8. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Is anyone really that surprised?

    What we all need to get our heads around when we see things like this is that they are trying to maintain control. Control over $ & you. Everything single fuel option in the world is controlled by someone else unless you own it / do it yourself.

    Make your own electricity, or biofuel and you liberate yourself.

    Make your own food, you liberate yourself.

    Germany has 85% solar, on peoples homes & has created more energy together as a whole then a nuclear station ever could. I am sure the energy monopoly there freaked out but now has to accept it. Follow everyone?
     
  9. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    how much does germany's power cost to the consumer ie.,. their quarterly charges?

    we never get that rue information.

    this 10 bucks a litre show is just another step in encouraging the oil companies to gouge us, we don't need being ripped off at the bowser with the gov' double dipping if PO is real where are the alternative or one single affordable alternative, where? anything to stop this rot.

    make your own fuel ad-hock nonsense so very few have that option what can we all do not egotistical singular fixes

    al we get since metrification at the bowser is: falling dollar fuel goes up, rising dollar fuel goes up, the cartel has us by the curlies, back in the 70's before pumps went metric the motoring organisation (supposed to be motorists ally),said at the time fuel was 40 cents a gallon (and petrol stations weren't closing down for lack of profit, the stoopid markets hadn't got into the fleecing game), the organisation said in short order we would be paying 40 cents a litre, and that is exactly what happened, even though motorists said no way jose. since then fuel prices have never been stable as the oil co's rip us off.

    time for you to stand and be counted where is the viable affordable alternative, and how much do consumer pay per kw hour as against what we pay.

    hark back to the little garden gnome when in power he knelt before the presidency and swore allegiance, the president said to him if you want continued funding help from the US we will have to go nuclear, and nuclear has always been a stepping stone between coal and renewables so they can make renewables look affordable.

    lets be practical how do we make life livable for the poor masses? don't need ideology we need real time alternatives, don't forget affordable, the rich corporate rip off types can afford to pay whatever and they ruined things.

    stop the con and rip off.

    len
     
  10. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    So what is your solution Len and how could it be implemented?
     
  11. matto

    matto Junior Member

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    "Germans pay a lot for their household electricity, about $0.34/kWh in 2012. The household tariff includes a “renewables surcharge,” expected to amount to roughly $249 per three-person household this year. That’d be three-fifths smaller if households weren’t subsidizing many businesses, mainly large ones—exempted from nearly the whole renewables charge, allegedly to boost German competitiveness—by 3–4 billion Euros a year".

    "in 2011 the German economy grew three percent and remained Europe’s strongest, buoyed by a world-class renewables industry with 382,000 jobs (about 222,000 of them added since 2004, with net employment and net stimulus both positive). Chancellor Merkel won her bet that it would be smarter to spend energy money on German engineers, manufacturers, and installers than to send it to the Russian natural gas behemoth Gazprom. Germany’s lights stayed on. The nuclear shutdown was entirely displaced by year-end, three-fifths due to renewable growth. Do the math: simply repeating 2011’s renewable installations for three additional years, through 2014, would thus displace Germany’s entire pre-Fukushima nuclear output. Meanwhile, efficiency gains—plus a mild winter—cut total German energy use by 5.3%, electricity consumption by 1.4%, and carbon emissions by 2.8%. Wholesale electricity prices fell 10–15%. Germany remained a net exporter of electricity, and during a February 2012 cold snap, even exported nearly 3 GW to power-starved France, which remains a net importer of German electricity.

    Was this just a flash in the pan? No. In 2012 vs. 2011, official data show that these trends broadly persisted".


    https://blog.rmi.org/blog_2013_04_17_germanys_renewables_revolution
     
  12. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    No mention of Germany by Dick Smith
    Germany has less sun than Australia and less wind than most of Australia and no geo thermal or wide open spaces to build a solar thermal plant.
     
  13. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    so matto?

    in short germans pay considerably more for their power than we do? how do the poor cope? or does germany look after its people far better than australia does, what impact high power cost on medical and other services which should include councils whatever where rates are paid to.

    so without nuclear how do they produce affordable power, and if german's can afford power @ 34 cents kwh, then wages and welfare payment must be higher or do they just sweep people aside.

    len
     
  14. MikeS

    MikeS Junior Member

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  15. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    what do you mean so! mike,

    the So! many aussies now can't afford artificially inflated power prices, not even battery powered car owners will be able to afford over the top priced renewable's.

    sad future ahead driven by doomsayers

    len
     
  16. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    The sad future is driven by the cornicopian belief that nothing needs to change and everything will be alright
     
  17. MikeS

    MikeS Junior Member

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  18. MikeS

    MikeS Junior Member

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    The so! Len is that if they were prepared to STOP WASTING SO MANY RESOURCES then they would actually SAVE money........
     
  19. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    AGL just sent out their new electricity price rates and have changed their method of billing. They now bill the same way water is billed here. The more you use the higher the price gets. The top price now for peak use in summer is .42 cents per kwh. The lowest I think started at .34c kwh. We have been paying minimum .32 c kwh for at least a couple of years. Our connection fee is now around $70 per quarter.
    We have done just about everything we can to lower our usage by about 5kwh per day. Without hand washing or ditching the freezer (I even turn the fridge and freezer off for 12 hours a day) there is not many other options other than getting renewables. We still have a $400+ per quarter bill including the GST and connection fee so I think that is actually pretty good!)
    Desperately trying to save enough to get solar/wind hybrid next year. There is a buying co-operative in Queensland that you can use to get solar much cheaper they advertise in Grass Roots magazine.
     
  20. MikeS

    MikeS Junior Member

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