Sun major influence in climate change

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Jana, Feb 17, 2010.

  1. Jana

    Jana Junior Member

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    I was listening to Peter Taylor's great talk on redicecreations.com on the corporatization of the environmental movement and he point out the work of Dr Theodor Landscheidt who studies solar/ocean cycles with respect to the angular momentum of the solar system on the sun and earth.

    https://www.john-daly.com/solar/solar.htm —SOLAR ACTIVITY: A DOMINANT FACTOR IN CLIMATE DYNAMICS
    D. Rind and J. Overpeck [93] have shown that at least half of the rise in temperature since the end of the Little Ice Age can be attributed to the parallel rise in the sun’s irradiance. D. Hoyt and K. H. Schatten [39] judge their elaborate results as follows: “From the record, we believe the sun plays a major role in natural secular climatic changes on time scales of decades to centuries.". E. S. Posmentier, W. H. Soon, and S. L. Baliunas [88, 107] eventually derive from a model based on the same solar factors as in the Hoyt-Schatten-model that 78% of the rise in temperature between 1885 and 1987 can be explained by the sun’s varying irradiance. An additional statistical experiment corroborates this result, though it omits the Svensmark effect and other solar-terrestrial relationships which are independent from irradiance. There is not much room left for the anthropogenic greenhouse effect. H. N. Priem [90] aptly remarks:

    “Recent studies show that solar variability rather than changing CO pressure is an important, probably the dominant climate forcing factor ... The current and anticipated fleet of spacecraft devoted to the study of solar and solar-terrestrial physics will therefore pobably prove to have more bearing on the understanding and forecasting of climate change than the orchestrated assessments by politically motivated international panels biased towards global warming exclusively by the enhanced greenhouse effect.”
     
  2. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    But it gets worse, what solid peer reviewed science do they cite for support? A heavily-criticised blog posting showing that there are bi-decadal periods in climate data and that this proves it was the sun wot done it. The work of an award-winning astrologer (one Theodor Landscheidt, who also thought that the rise of Hitler and Stalin were due to cosmic cycles), a classic Courtillot paper we’ve discussed before, the aforementioned FoS web page, another web page run by Doug Hoyt, a paper by Garth Paltridge reporting on artifacts in the NCEP reanalysis of water vapour that are in contradiction to every other reanalysis, direct observations and satellite data, a complete reprint of another un-peer reviewed paper by William Gray, a nonsense paper by Miskolczi etc. etc. I’m not quite sure how this is supposed to compete with the four rounds of international scientific and governmental review of the IPCC or the rounds of review of the CCSP reports...

    Source: Real Climate: Climate Science from Climate Scientists
     
  3. paradisi

    paradisi Junior Member

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    roflmao

    weve just had that great product of britains inbred aristocracy - Lord Monckton - on the sunshine coast - he like his holiness tony abbott - have proclaimed that man had nothing to do with it

    you could almost bother to listen to monckton if his south seas holiday hadnt been funded by australias biggest female billionaire - who happens to own australias biggest collection of coal mines
     
  4. MayRoberts

    MayRoberts Junior Member

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    Climate change and the sun

    Carbon emissions being the cause of climate change has not been proven beyond reasonable doubt and scientists are not infallible. Recently, a research scientist has admitted to falsifying many studies over 13 years which were published in peer reviewed medical journals, so peer review is not infallible either.

    There is always the possibility that what is being presented in the carbon debate is a kin to DHMO;

    “Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) is a colorless and odorless chemical compound, also referred to by some as Dihydrogen Oxide, Hydrogen Hydroxide, Hydronium Hydroxide, or simply Hydric acid. Its basis is the highly reactive hydroxyl radical, a species shown to mutate DNA, denature proteins, disrupt cell membranes, and chemically alter critical neurotransmitters. The atomic components of DHMO are found in a number of caustic, explosive and poisonous compounds such as Sulfuric Acid, Nitroglycerine and Ethyl Alcohol…………….. Yes, you should be concerned about DHMO! Although the U.S. Government and the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) do not classify Dihydrogen Monoxide as a toxic or carcinogenic substance (as it does with better known chemicals such as hydrochloric acid and benzene), DHMO is a constituent of many known toxic substances, diseases and disease-causing agents, environmental hazards and can even be lethal to humans in quantities as small as a thimbleful. …………. Critics of government often cite the fact that many politicians and others in public office do not consider Dihydrogen Monoxide to be a "politically beneficial" cause to get behind, and so the public suffers from a lack of reliable information on just what DHMO is and why they should be concerned. …………………. Unfortunately, the dangers of DHMO have increased as world population has increased, a fact that the raw numbers and careful research both bear out. Now more than ever, it is important to be aware of just what the dangers of Dihydrogen Monoxide are and how we can all reduce the risks faced by ourselves and our families. “

    More scientific “facts” about DHMO can be read at; https://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

    A scientific paper can be written and indisputable facts presented in a way that make something appear to be something other than it is.

    There was a time when the lands around the north pole were covered in vegetation before the most recent ice age. There was an instant freeze as evident in the discovery of the woolly mammoth. There was a time when the temperature on this planet was higher than it is now. This planet has gone through climate changes in the past. We need to go back thousands of years to get a more informed picture of the climate change patterns this earth goes through, not just look at a what we have recorded during the most recent century,.

    I read in a science mag a few years ago that the temperature on the other planets in our solar system has increased (and alas cannot put my hand to the mag at this time).

    What might be contributing to this?

    The influence of the sun in relation to climate change cannot be ignored, but it is being ignored, why?

    Possibly so people do not panic as we have no control over the activity and influence of the sun.

    Don’t be too quick to discount the influence of the sun on climate change.

    Cheers
    May
     
  5. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day May

    Welcome to the PRI Forum.

    You may find the following article of interest:

    Philips (2010) Science in public ain't pretty

    I wish you all the best in your permaculture endeavours.

    Regards, Marko.
     
  6. Jonathan Byron

    Jonathan Byron Junior Member

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    While I believe that the evidence does support the idea of anthropogenic global warming, let's assume for a minute that there is absolutely no human role in the observed warming. What does that assumption change? I suggest that nothing changes.

    We still have burned enough coal to raise the mercury level in fish, while the CO2 and sulfur are acidifying the oceans. We still have 6 billion people and will have to produce more food in the next 50 years than in the past 10,000 years. We have destroyed much of the world's soil since developing the moldboad plow. We are sending a large number of species into extinction, destroying their potential to serve as food or medicine or a source of beauty and wonder. We are going to hit peak oil soon (if we haven't already), which means energy will become more expensive, material consumption must decline, and people will turn back towards more dirty coal. Humans have profoundly disturbed the nitrogen cycle and the phosphorous cycle, with disastrous effects on inland and coastal waters. Groundwater resources are being drawn down and many irrigated areas will have to return to drier rain-fed levels.

    We cannot pretend things are business as usual and keep living the way we do. Global warming or not, big changes are needed.
     
  7. mischief

    mischief Senior Member

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  8. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

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    warm temperate - some frost - changing every year
    Too true
     
  9. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    I think we are just another species in the natural cycle of things, we will come and go. Perhaps some will survive and evolve perhaps they won't. The universe will probably keep turning barely aware of these insignificant ape-like creatures that existed momentarily, like a tiny dot on a small blip. That is my scientific view.

    My philosophical/spiritual view is that our perception is our reality, if'n ya don't like what ya perceivin then start perceivin different. What if all the attention we give global warming, all the attention we give to so many negative things, is what gives energy to those very things? What if we all just went out into our gardens and grew stuff because we love growing it, we love the taste of it and we love being in the great outdoors? What if we lived in the NOW? It's worth considering I think.
     
  10. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

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    Occupation:
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    warm temperate - some frost - changing every year
    I some times relate the story of the canary in the golden cage who gets nice food and fresh water and tasty little seed balls and sings all day and is very happy. It's lif as he knows it and he is getting the best. Then some well meaning friend comes and tells he he is a prisoner and he spends the rest of his days miserable. I am never real sure of the moral to the story but it makes me ponder.
     
  11. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Definitely worth considering, Grahame. But is giving it our consideration enough? If we are to ever to actually be the change that we want to see then we have to actively engage in collective change strategies. Individual efforts, while exemplary in their own right, can only ever go so far as to creating a climate of change - for the sheer mass of opposite forces stand in our way. Whereas if we act together, a critical mass of opposition to the status quo will be achieved and the social and ecological exploiters will be defeated. How do we create an environment that is conducive to collective action, I hear you ask? Mandala town, my friend, mandala town.

    Cheerio, Markus.
     
  12. dannyboy

    dannyboy Junior Member

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    so is this forum mandala town? or are we all upping sticks and building this thing for real?
     
  13. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day dannyboy

    Mandala town, just like this forum, is what you choose to make it. Many (including myself) see the work that we put into the forum as being very 'real'. Some my choose to move on and build a 'real' community (I and others are in the process of forming an IC). While others may be satisfied to just 'dream' about it. Either way, the choice is yours (as it is for everyone). In the least, the forum acts as a conduit for fostering true community harmony - and that can only be a great thing!

    Cheerio, Marko
     
  14. permasculptor

    permasculptor Junior Member

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    I don't believe there is any need to up sticks at all . If we all build our own section then we will eventually link up just need to build an entry and an exit to facilitate flow. as always there are exceptions.
     
  15. dannyboy

    dannyboy Junior Member

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    Marko I absolutely agree! it was a bit of kidding around on a friday evening after a couple of drinks. I'd be keen to hear a bit more about the IC that your developing.
     
  16. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Dannyboy

    It is all good, my friend.

    There is about 3.5-years worth of discussion here on the subject.

    Cheerio, Marko.
     
  17. WENewman

    WENewman Junior Member

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    hopeful messages

    Environmental instability, climate change, it's a reality to agriculturists already affected and soon to be affected. Realizing a culture of independence from the sources of pollution will only be the beginning to creating a sustainable world even remotely resembling the one humans inhabited for a million years. Vocalizing hopeful messages to an apathetic population may change their perceptions, and inspire them to search for alternatives to the current system.
     
  18. dannyboy

    dannyboy Junior Member

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    Great work Marko! I wish you the best of luck in your endeavour.
     
  19. Jana

    Jana Junior Member

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    Interstellar Effects of Climate Change

    Exerpts, recommend you read the entire article.

    PLANETOPHYSICAL STATE OF THE EARTH AND LIFE By DR. ALEXEY N. DMITRIEV* (1998)

    Instrument recordings, and even direct observations, of these phenomena throughout Earth's electromagnetic field provides evidence that an immense transformation of Earth's environment is taking place.
    •The sharp rise of our technogeneous system's destructive force on a planetary as well as a cosmic scale, has now placed the future survival of our technocratic civilization in question. Additionally, the principle of Natures supremacy over that of humanities current integral technogeneous and psychogenic activities and results, becomes more, and more, apparent.
    •The situation that has been created here in our Heliosphere is of external, Interstellar, cosmic space origin,and is herein assumed to be caused by the underlying fundamental auto-oscillation, space-physical, processes of continuous creation that has shaped, and continues to evolve our Universe.
    •It is now seen that the acceleration of polar travel may grow to a rate of up to 200 km per year. This means that a polar inversion may happen far more rapidly than is currently supposed by those investigators without a familiarity with the overall polar shift problem.
    •The increasing and immense amounts of matter and energy radiating from the Sun's Solar Wind, and Interplanetary Space, by means previously discussed, has began to rush into these widened slots in the polar regions causing the Earth's crust, the oceans, and the polar ice caps to warm.
    •The temperature regime of any given phase of climatic reorganization is characterized by contrasts, and instabilities. The widely quoted, and believed, "Greenhouse Effect" scenario for total climatic changes is by far the weakest explanation, or link, in accounting for this reorganization.
    •It has already been observed that the growth in the concentration of CO2 has stopped, and that the methane content in the atmosphere has began to decrease while the temperature imbalance, and the common global pressure field dissolution has proceeded to grow.
    •Researchers are now insisting more, and more, that the Earth's temperature increases are dependent upon, and directly linked to, space-terrestrial interactions; be it Earth-Sun, Earth-Solar System, and/or Earth-Interstellar.
    •Temperature gradient changes, and alterations, over the entire planet would create new thermodynamic conditions for entire regions; especially when the hydrospheres [oceans] begin to participate in the new thermal non-equilibrium. The study supports this conclusion, and the consideration of a highly possible abrupt cooling of the European and North American Continents.
    •The Van Allen radiation belt has abruptly lowered above the East Coast of the US from 300 km to 10 km. This process is associated with electricity transmission from the Great Lakes to the South along a magnetic meridian, and usage of the ionosphere-resonance frequency (60Hz) of energy consumption.
    •There are reasons favoring, or pointing to, the fact that a growth in the ethical, or spiritual quality, of humanity would decrease the number and intensity of complex catastrophes.
    •There is no other path to the future than a profound internal experiential perception and knowledge of the events now underway in the natural environment that surrounds us. It is only through this understanding that humanity will achieve balance with the renewing flow of the PlanetoPhysical States and Processes.
    https://www.tmgnow.com/repository/global/planetophysical.html
     
  20. Jana

    Jana Junior Member

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    Paul A. LaViolette and Alexey Dmitriev may be able to shed some light on this current Solar Cycle 24
    David Hathaway, Ph.D., Heliospheric Team Leader, NASA Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama: “In the 50 years or so we’ve been making the (cosmic ray) measurements – yeah! this is by far the highest level of galactic cosmic rays that we’re seeing at Earth and we know exactly what is causing it. It’s the sun’s weakened magnetic fields and weakened solar winds that are all related to this Solar Cycle 24 minimum. IN FACT, IN 2012, THE SUN MIGHT BE THE QUIETEST IT HAS BEEN AT A SOLAR MAXIMUM FOR 130 OR MORE YEARS? https://thecosmicheart.blogspot.com/2009/11/no-more-2012-solar-maximum-for-cycle-24.html


    www.etheric.com/ Dr. Paul A. LaViolette.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oURVtGKW420&feature=player_embedded Superwave theory…and subquantum kinetics.
     

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