"Starting from scratch" in the current economic climate

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Tildesam, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. Tildesam

    Tildesam Junior Member

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    Hi guys!

    Another beginner post of the "what do you think" variety :)

    So I know I want in the mid-to-long term to settle away from major urban centres, preferably in dense rural with access to minor urban centres (e.g moderately sized country towns)

    The more I read about current issues facing us in the future (the most ominous of which being Peak Oil) the more I become certain that I need to purchase as soon as possible (tangible assets etc) - I think I'm turning into a survivalist...

    I'm in the bittersweet position of not having any major commitments (yet) such as a mortgage or personal loan - and I am young enough to have the opportunity to start over, career wise.

    So here's the question, and I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

    Based on our current economic climate, and the projected (but debated) possibility of further recession and negative impact in the future, what sounds better -

    - Stay in the city, work at a well paid job until you have enough to pay almost an entire property off in one go; then chance employment where you move to (but since you're mostly taken care of, not have to worry about what you do exactly)

    - Take the risk of getting into a loan, make a gradual transition which involves going back and forth and preparing, and when the final move comes, rely on a more traditional career (albeit relocated) until finances are settled.

    So... rip into me :sweat:
     
  2. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Personally - I'd avoid debt like the plague. See if you can find some info about Nicole Foss - she spoke here recently. Her opinion is the tipping point that will undo 'the world as we know it' is the banking system falling apart. And the first things the banks will do as they start to fail is call in their loans.
    I'd be looking to set up community support where ever you are and whatever circumstances you are in, and keep your future options open. Debt restricts choice.
    My 2c....
     
  3. Tildesam

    Tildesam Junior Member

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    You're on the money, of course. (pun partially intended)

    It seems that a community setup may be inevitable, unless housing prices fall so low that property will only be 2-3x yearly income (before the industrial age, that sort of thing).

    I suspect this will either never eventuate or it will be a long time coming with other impacts of recession (eg scarcity of food) and by then I maye have "missed the boat", so to speak.
     
  4. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Sammyjo, I reckon those options you have outlined are both firmly inside-the-box. I reckon there have to be better solution outside of the box.

    I reckon you need to somehow attach yourself to someone else land :) . There is one idea floating around... As the countries farmers head towards retirement age there are fewer and fewer of the next generation willing to take on the role. There is an opportunity for willing people to learn how to and eventually run the farm for the older folks who can move into retirement gradually. The young people could pay the farmers a certain percentage of the earnings as a sort of rental/retirement income... Obviously I have given the bare bones of the scheme but there are example of this happening already. It really is an example of building relationships.

    Build some relationships with the 'right' sort of people, in bureaucracy speak it is called networking ;) My feeling is that the more you immerse yourself in the sub-culture, the more the sub-culture makes the right space for you. It may involve moving out of the city or not. I don't mean this in any way religiously but I have found that 'ask and you shall receive' is definitely some kind of universal law. When you 'put yourself out there' there is often someone ready to provide for you. I can't count the amount of times I have casually mentioned to someone that I need some old straw or bath tub etc etc only to have them say they have one they are wanting to get rid of "if you come and get it you can have it".

    Have a really clear and honest vision of what it is you want from life Sammyjo, the more clear you can be the more accommodating the universe is and the more often the right people seem to appear.

    In your post I hear more about what you are trying to avoid and what you are trying to move away from than I do about where you want to go and what you are trying to move towards. Make sense?

    I think sometimes people flee the city to the country and find themselves all lost in space.
     
  5. Tildesam

    Tildesam Junior Member

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    Some interesting things you touch on here. I think the reason I focus so firmly on what I want to get away from is because I know irrevocably what that is. I understand the consequences of not taking action on things, for instance. The debilitating part is the uncertainty about what to do once I do get away, and I suppose it's why nothing has happened yet as such.

    You also touch on an interesting notion I'm struggling with; networking. For whatever reason I've grown up not trusting anybody and I think living in a big city "life" ironically encourages isolation from other people. I had a negative experience trying to join a community garden not long ago where I found the curators to be over-engaged with political warfare (trying to subdue the local council for instance) and so didn't find a solution to this "isolation" there.

    I know, however, Permaculture pretty much can't run without people. So I guess I have to give people a second chance... still working on that I must admit. I know I can't get anywhere near my goal until I embrace this, and I figure moving away from the city is a nice way to start anew.

    I like your idea of farm "inheritance" if you will, it sounds historically sympathetic and a good way to lead existing farms in good directions. Sounds a bit like FarmShare but more intimate (interacting with one person or family rather than working with multiple). I wonder if there's anywhere on the Internet talking about it?
     
  6. Terra

    Terra Moderator

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    You will also eventually need a partner / soul mate who is on the same page , big contract to buy and set up a property of any size on your own , you will need multipe skills or the money to buy them , and a 100 irons in the fire at the same time , in rural areas most of the young people leave for more exciting pastures so there are opportunities to fill these gaps . So if you want to leave the city life then go , choose where wisely , dont try and grow strawberries in a salt mine , train in a career that pays well and is in critical short supply in regional australia then you will certainly succeed , live in rural conditions for awhile and see how you go . Mrs Terra was a towney she slotted in straight away there would be plenty regardless of gender that have not . The city will always be there .
    Rob
     
  7. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    Hi Sammyjo,

    Do you know where you want to be? Is it possible to take leave without pay or extended leave and go woofing or just stay with people in different areas to see where you would like to live? That way you can come back and ready yourself when you are happy with your choice. Any investment in property should be somewhere you have experienced and like.

    I think the banking system is pretty well ok here in Australia, although they are exposed to bad debt overseas. If the SHTF big time, I doubt there would be anyone to buy houses off the bank as no-one would have the money to buy them. Having said that, I wouldn't get into too much debt either. A small amount if much easier to pay off then a lot. Just rent a few rooms out and the mortgage is paid.

    When you get yourself out there, like Grahame says, sometimes things just fall into place.
     
  8. Tildesam

    Tildesam Junior Member

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    I've requested leave before (tentatively with intent to do a PDC) and was only approved with 2 weeks. I don't think that's anywhere near long enough for more than a "toe dipper" so to speak. I suspect I will eventually come to a point where I will choose between this job and a more involved exploration of a sustainable lifestyle.

    I'm earning really good money for my age - so I want to make sure I'm absolutely certain of what I decide before I sacrifice the income - I don't think I can claw back this income for a while if I decide to return to the industry (double edged sword of my line of work in web development)

    Terra and Annette - one part of me agrees with you, that just dropping it and going for what I want will probably work out, yet the part of me that has yet to let go of the life I've been bred to live can't bear the risk of doing it.

    I've given myself about 18 months to decide - that's long (and short) enough, I think... right? :)

    (I sound really unsure of myself yet I swear I've been considering this all in my head for 2 years or so!)
     
  9. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    I don't think you need to change jobs in order to minimise your footprint on the Earth. I assume you already ride a bike and use public transport? I'm guessing you have found some good local farmers markets or a co-op in your area? Are you buying all your clothes at the op-shops? There are a lot of things you can do to give yourself a taste of what it might be like living a hard-core permaculture life. You could try only spending your money on absolute essentials and see how you get along trying to scrounge or trade or whatever for the rest. I reckon you could save a huge percentage of your wages, get a taste for the simple life-style and fast track your 'savings'.

    There's nothing to stop you from doing more web-based work for ethical companies/organisations/peeps. You could freelance in your new life?

    Make as much of the transition as you can now and you are more likely to meet similar-minded people and people who are 'active'.

    What do you imagine a sustainable life might look like?
     
  10. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Grahame that's what I wanted to say - only you said it much more beautifully than I could...
     
  11. Tildesam

    Tildesam Junior Member

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    I find these questions sort of ambiguous in a way, since like the concepts they portray they're quite dynamic and open to interpretation. Often for people the concept changes over time, or as they change as people.

    For me, being "sustainable" embodies the ideal context in which one can put into practice methods of production, harvesting and manufacture (crafting) of raw materials in a way that's mostly independent from oil-driven tools and processes.

    Call me a purist, but anything in between total ignorance and total "sustainability" I consider to be a transitional, developmental, or learning period. I believe I'm in such a phase (closer to the start of it).

    I'd like to think I've had a good start - since I haven't been able to afford much and haven't been out of home long, I've never had a car but have a motorcycle. I'm growing things on my balcony when I have enough sun, buy cheap second hand clothes through eBay and give my clothes to St Vinnies when they're too big/small. I'm also trying my hand at knitting (the first of my proper crafting skills) and doing more a bit at a time.

    I find it hard sometimes to get into the real head-space of this stuff, knowing I live in a huge apartment block sucking up electricity, too cold not to require heating - and going to work at a job that's completely backward from where I want to go long term. (The floor of my office runs at least 200 computers, making up only 2% of the entire company - I wonder how many wind turbines and trompes that'd take to power!?)

    (Freelancing is always an option but any sacrifice in salary at the moment is a step backward in saving for what I need later... and we're trying to stay away from debt remember? :) )
     
  12. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Fair enough Sammyjo.

    I was thinking your other way is to snag yourself a farmer ;) Then you could subvert him/her with your evil permaculture ways.

    Eco, I like the way you say things just fine ;)
     
  13. Terra

    Terra Moderator

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    I was trying to be diplomatic and not say that Grahame 8) there is a huge need for sheilas in rural communities . So if and when your ready move to the bush play netball and it will all happen .
    Terra dives for cover :sweat:
     
  14. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    So what position does Mrs Terra command on the field?
     
  15. Terra

    Terra Moderator

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  16. Tildesam

    Tildesam Junior Member

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    LOL you guys are funny!

    Interestingly, there may be possibility of a someone to GK in the near future 8)
    In fact the most awesome part is he already owns a property in the country while living in the city (in the perfect place too!)

    But you know, don't wanna get all caught up just yet - good idea to have plans for all eventualities. :y:
     
  17. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    rofl

    I like her too. :) ((Says the crazy American))
     

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