Spirituality defined

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by mischief, Aug 13, 2012.

  1. mischief

    mischief Senior Member

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    Everybody has vested interests and conflicts of interest because every body is trying to the best they can for themselves and their friends.

    There are some who are not interested in the spiritual grow or journey and /or see it as unnecessary.
    Everyone is different and has gained different understandings.

    There are others who see it as a tool they can use to belittle others, be in control or have power over others.This may be the ones you are concerned about.
    (I dont think that is something we really need to worry about here).
     
  2. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day grasshopper,

    we are not above anyone and no more or less important in teh big picture

    and what we have is hard copy that is not fictional,

    good luck

    len
     
  3. mischief

    mischief Senior Member

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    Thanks Ludi, much better definition,was I trying to keep things too simple maybe?
     
  4. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    My hard copy is deleted on death and composted with me,its not for thumping,my big pictures are a scratched in the earth .
     
  5. mischief

    mischief Senior Member

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    Like it.
     
  6. Ludi

    Ludi Junior Member

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    I'm a little lost about what the subject is: Are we to be defining what the word/concept "spirituality" means to us personally, or are we to be explaining our personal spiritual experience/viewpoint/philosophy/religion? Or both?

    Sorry, I'm usually confused....
     
  7. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Len

    Yes, it is a broad subject. However, this does not mean that it cannot be studied in a perfectly rational and respectful manner. After all, thousands of scholars around the world today are doing just this. Our university has been conducting studies on this very subject for many years (although recent budgetary cuts mean that this may not continue into the future). Indeed, we share a floor in the same building. As such, I often partake in a coffee and a chat with students (under and post-grad) and staff/lecturers on this very subject. Never have I witnessed or been party to any sort of 'conflict' resembling name-calling or worse, fisti-cuffs. Strong, determined, dialectical debate, yes. Conflict borne out of ignorance, never.

    As for knowledge, some of the most knowledgable people on the subject I know are atheists. Personally, I have read from many different books on the subject over many years. I have friends and colleagues who self-identify as either Christian, Muslim or Jew. Some friends combine the teachings of all three into a mono-theological interest. Other friends follow more 'spiritual' paths, any one of the infinite ancient or modern varieties. Others, similar to myself, are very interested parties to the subject, but at the same time are quite happy to stand on the margins in order to observe it all without actually participating. As such, I have often been invited to all manner of 'sacred' places, to partake in all manner of religious/spiritual events - both in human designed and built environments (temples, mosques, stupas/gompas and churches), and naturally occurring (Uluru and Kata Tjuta, for example).

    Why don't you tell us what you believe and why you believe it, Len? You might be surprised to learn that some of we 'secular' folk are quite knowledgable in terms of the subject matter concerned with your own world view. It's a big world. Plenty of room in the Mandala Town Beer Hall for people of all differing faiths (or non-faith, as the case may be). Heck, I'll even shout the first round!

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  8. mischief

    mischief Senior Member

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    Ludi,
    so am I now and I cant see how I have the right to determine for others what the differences between related subjects.I thought I had a clear idea of how to do this by trying first to define exactly what the word means, but now,it feels pretentious of me to try to do this.

    I think we are all usually confused.:D

    It occurred to me that we may have different opinions as to what spirituality actually is.For example I see religion as something slightly different in that it is defined as the belief and worship of and obedience to a higher power(for want of a better word so as not to start an arguement as to the exact name of said being..eg god allah).
    Others see this as a key part to their own spiritual journey.

    Then you have spiritualism which a friend grew up with which seems to be different to spirituality (to me),in that there seems to be more focus on developing the ability to commmunicate with those in spirit and/or the guides the higher power has supposedly given us to aid us in our spiritual journey.

    Then you have personal philosophies of life, gleaned from the experiences and lessons learned in either your own life or from observing others in their life.
    These may and probably do include bits of information and methods in dealing with situations from anywhere and everywhere and quite often include things such as statements that an individual has composed for themselves to explain at least, to themselves, what they have learnt so far.

    The subject of spirituality also seems to include the concepts of morals and ethics in the same or similar ways that philosophies and religions do...

    and because we all have our own views of what fits where, it gets confusing.

    I do think and have said before, that I feel our comsumerish society has problems because there seems to be more emphasis placed on physical well being and the right or need to have things, with not enough thought or attention placed on spiritual well being.

    I see this as having Created an imbalance.

    The original idea I had for this thread was for you to say what the concept meant for you...and then...did I get side tracked too?

    The subject creates quite alot of emotional response which gets in the way of understanding how and what people think.
    I see a need to be willing to grant others the right to their thoughts and opinions.
    Having said that I have been guilty of arguing on points I dont agree with too.

    It may be that this is the sort of subject that should be discussed face to face, but according to history, this didnt work out that well either.

    I think if we can break through the confusion without killing each other, it would lead to a greater understanding for all.
    I have a feeling that trying to do this may actually take more than one attempt.
    If people keep belittling others for not agreeing with them, its not going to work.

    This behaviour is what you see in alot of other subjects and situations as well.
    I feel it is an automatic reaction brought about by social conditioning and is a habit we all need to break, me included.
     
  9. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    I have sought out such places in my travels.
    I have walked the stations of the cross with Latin American Benedictine monks,been to the holy sepulchre, Bethlehem,Dome of the Rock,even had a personal guided tour with an East German pastor we met in our journeys,seen nearly every temple mosque or church in Egypt,Mexico, Asia,and Europe.
    All are fantastic, beautiful places even for the non secular.
     
  10. Ludi

    Ludi Junior Member

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    So many of us are terribly physically, as well as emotionally/mentally/psychically - spiritually? - ill..... :( Emphasis on something which we are, as a culture, achieving the opposite of......

    As I said in the other thread I'm not particularly able to discuss my personal spiritual beliefs because they are personal and I don't have a common language with others with which to discuss them, also, they are personal. :) I don't feel in a position to tell other folks what concepts mean to them. To me, the word "spirituality" as people use it seems to mean something like "important." But I can't really know what they mean by it.....
     
  11. mischief

    mischief Senior Member

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    I think we are more at ease with discussing imbalances in our gardens, farms or forests and can see or become aware of causes and effects because they are in front of our eyes To see,whereas, we are behind our eyes.
    Its differcult to see a problem when the problem is 'me'?

    I wonder if we did have or could get a common language for this, would it make it easier to work things out for ourselves and maybe easier to talk about them with others?...until then....happy contemplations.
     
  12. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    I once came of with a concept I called the 'Emotional Dictionary'. The short description of the concept is that, apart from the variations in our individual understanding of the literal definition of a given word, we also all have our own individual emotional definition for that word.

    For example for me, the word pleasant always had a warm, tranquil and relaxed quality to it. Someone else I new, really didn't like the word because of the way someone in their life used it. It held a negative, cold and distant emotional feeling for them. This was regardless of the literal understanding of the word.

    I think well read people have a deeper understanding of a word in all its intricacies because they see it used regularly in different subtle contexts. Those who are less well read tend to rely on the colloquial or a limited exposure to the word. This is not to judge but to point out the vast difference that can exist between people and their understanding of their language.

    This is why it can be difficult to translate our internal 'spiritual' world into words (particularly as words are a physical realm thing). It really does require more in-depth conceptual discussion for us to draw out a persons full meaning. The internet is even more limited because we can't pick up on the subtle nuances of language, the body language, the emphasis on words etc. A lot of the information communication conveys is outside of the words alone.

    But it's cool to try :)
     
  13. Farside

    Farside Junior Member

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    What struck me about permaculture is that it resonates, at a deep spiritual level, with my very being. Working in harmony with the environment, every other organism in that environment, and doing this in such a way that it follows the patterns and processes of this great system is in itself a spiritual exercise in my mind.

    To me, spirituality isn't a place, creed, or even a state of mind. I am a Christian and I know many other Christians who are religious, yet are not spiritual. I also know many spiritual people who do not identify with any religion or belief.

    I guess my definition of spirituality is a sense of intimate connectedness with _____ that we exist within, interact with, and are part of.
    To me, being spiritual means maintaining this intimate and constant connection, observing, acknowledging and acting on the feedback one gets as a result.

    For me personally that empty space is filled by God the creator. For some of my friends, it is the universe, for others it's the unified energy field, and for my atheist friends it's the complex chemical reaction that makes up Earth's biosphere.

    My personal position leads me to a state where the practice of permaculture, being a deeply spiritual exercise, is also a high form of worship. This is because I work in harmony with the creation in which I physically exist. In doing so, I honour it's creator by conducting myself as the creator intended.

    Similarly, a chicken honours the creator through it's full expression of chickenness and I would argue that this is also a form of worship. However the chicken has no choice but to act like a chicken. I have the power to choose... I suspect that means something important.
     
  14. mischief

    mischief Senior Member

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  15. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Farside

    If this is so, why does it cross the road?

    Seriously, welcome to the PRI Forum.

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  16. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    While I have a wealth of experience from 24+ years in experimenting with holistic techniques in replicating nature with regards Habitat Restoration over in southern California, I have always understood that what will save this planet from extinction is a spiritual one , not a quick profit driven material fix. Here's what I mean. When I hear the word "spiritual", I think in terms of something invisible, something you can't actually touch, see, taste, smell, hear or feel. Green Innovations or Eco-green Solution concepts are fine, but as the recent media reports have shown, many of these have been more of a marketing cloak for corporation profiteering. I think of "Spiritual" concepts as referred to in the bible as in personality traits or qualities that can be woven into one's own personality. Sadly most religious people no longer follow these qualities or our world would be a different place.

    Example: Galatians 5:22 & 23 - (22) "On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, (23)*mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law."


    There is nothing material about any of these qualities which are mere traits of that figurative secret person of the heart. All the eco-solutions and Green innovations mean nothing if mankind as a whole refuses to acquire such qualities and make them their own. Being a good father or husband or wife. Being a better neighbour or treating strangers with respect. Being hospitable to strangers. Being an honest employee or far employer. The list is endless. Everyone reading knows what I'm talking about. Even with the technologies we have today without further invention, we'd have a clean healthy planet if the average person respected the planet and all life on it. Yet in my blogs I mostly write about techniques and ideas that have been a success for me in urban landscaping and wild habitat restoration. But all the while I'm well aware they they ultimately will save nothing unless the proper motivations exist.



    -


    -
     
  17. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day earth's internet,

    that is a spot on reply from where we stand.

    the being spiritual in the Bible is from our relationship with God, we have such a relationship following the truth of God's word, and His commandments, we interact positively and friendly with neighbours and all we come in contact with, we make no judgements of others. but yes the "Spiritual" you talk of if followed by all who started with christian roots would make at least our part of the world a better place to live, then we could encourage other cultures. most of our recent issues with other beliefs coming into our community is we have no standard to be able to say to them "we are this sort of community" give them something tangible that they can see to come here means our culture is first like if we went to some of their countries, they have definite guide lines can lead to you demise if not followed or respected.

    new comers have nothing here to respect, what does being secular & anti God offer anyone? just image if all followed the ethics of the 10 commandments(many shades of variations for other ideals all taken from them) crime would be reduced and harmony increased, too easy hey, if people aren't driven by material things or low self esteem then they don't lust after what someone else has.

    not sure how true? but i did hear that a religious leader is saying that the crime of covertness is not a crime to be punished, he is purported to have said that should someone take or covet something they need to improve their lives then that is not a crime, covers shop lifting and break and entry. be a great place to live when all that comes in hey? imagine coming home or waking up to find intruders on you property taking all they want that you have paid for, i have also heard they have similar law situation in south africa, where a home owner or the police can do little to get and intruder out of your home.

    not to confuse being spiritual with spirituality.

    take care

    len
     

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