I'm trying to brainstorm on a way to organize a species list that would be best suited for permaculturists. There are some random lists online, a great list in the Edible Forest Gardens (Jacke/Toensmeier) book, and even books dedicated to it. Was thinking it would be handy to have a good, centralized, list, online and accessible offline, that could be easily navigable. For example... looking up Cajanus Cajan, you get the USDA information on it, which has a extremely robust list of characteristics: https://plants.usda.gov/java/charProfile?symbol=CACA27 Maybe a big set of filters applied to a similar database... like: "What I'm looking for must be: Coppicable, Drought Tolerant, Fodder Product"... etc ? Just thinking out loud, but think it may be a handy type of application. Would love to hear any ideas, especially from some of the designers out in the field. Thanks ! == Dylan
Re: Species List for Permaculturists ? Jason Ross in Dunedin has an excellent A4 booklet on suitable tree and shrub species for Coastal Otago. It's arranged with keys for a whole bunch of stuff including soil, climate, use (human and other animal), what the plants like etc. And arranged also according to botanical name, common name etc. It's a very good example of how to arrange the information, and you'd probably find some of the content relevant to where you are too. I don't think it's online but you can contact him via his website: https://www.sutherlandnursery.co.nz/index.html While I think a general resource is useful, I'd love to see geo-specific ones like Jason's. They could be online too.
Re: Species List for Permaculturists ? Thanks Pebble ! I emailed Jason in hopes of being able to view the documents you mentioned. Any other suggestions / ideas / dreams are welcome as well Cheers ! == Dylan
Re: Species List for Permaculturists ? I have hundreds of books on plants. There is no advice however, like that from someone who has grown the plant you want to grow in the area you want to grow it. That's why Forums such as this are useful and important. It would be nice to have better climate data though. I like the USA system 1-9-10 Zones which is helpful but not perfect. For example Sage (Salvia officnalis) recommended for Zone 9, is almost impossible to keep alive in wet coastal Sydney beyond a year or too. French Tarragon packs it in if you don't divide it ever2-3 years and water it well in summer and lightly in winter Aloe Vera (Indian Aloe) is not a cactus it likes lots of water etc etc.
Re: Species List for Permaculturists ? Excellent idea. It would take work though and work costs. I dunno about Geoff's external relationships but there would be suppliers out there who would want to link to the actual pages. It just depends on the cost and return. I would suggest that anyone accessing the database would have to register as increased participation makes the site more saleable. I have an example of local knowledge/practises exploding myths. Asparagus has long been seen as a temperate crop but as a participant in the first commercial tropical asparagus crop I can personally tell you that asparagus is a remarkable tropical crop and it can be harvested twice a year commercially. Once in 'winter' heavily and again at about Christmas time lightly. The same can be said about lemons, they grow remarkably in the tropics but require heavy pruning. We can also grow oranges here but not commercially as they dont go orange but stay mostly green which is fine by me. The Katherine region now has a healthy citrus industry because one person ignored what was 'common knowledge'. The other important thing about such a database is that most permie food production is for home/neighbour's use so, say, a tomato variety that produces well for me might produce 20 tomatoes per vine which would literally be a waste of space for a commercial grower. Early on this thread mentioned pigeon pea-cajanus cajanus which will grow here despite being under near constant attack by animals etc and if it were grown in Dunedin NZ I have no doubts it will never be as robust as my pigeon pea but I suspect that if it were started in a hothouse and planted out in November, in the right position, it may do just fine. Very soon I will be handplanting a pasture crop. I already know that mungbean, millet, peanuts and maize will grow. I dont know if wynns cassia or buckwheat will do any good here but I will report back in about April. It would be nice to add any knowledge gained to a database. The whole point of having this database would be to share that local experience as I am more likely to replicate/ another permie's situation than I am a commercial growers. cheers,
Re: Species List for Permaculturists ? I think an online database would be a wonderful resource. Obviously, the information out there verges on the infinite, so boundaries would have to be set up early on to avoid creating a monsterous task that could hardly be begun, let alone completed. One (probably the most obvious) example would be to create it for a specific geographic region. Also, I agree that it would be best specifically created as a "backyard permaculture resource" rather than something for commercial set-ups, again to try to make the project manageable. Unfortunately I know little about setting up websites, but I am handy with several computer programs, and would like to offer my time to helping gathering, compiling and sorting information for such a project
Re: Species List for Permaculturists ? O dear Someone taking me seriously Ho-hum do you realise what ahuge task this is could be? Take Chillies. There are at least 300 varieties in four different botanical groups. They grow from the beaches of the Caribbean to high up the S. American mountains of the Andies. From the deserts to tropical forests. Some are vines.(The Manzano) Many think they are annuals because theirs die every winter I agree with helgeco that She seems to understand the scale of such an enterprise and starting small might be a good idea. Although if you did a small geographic area you would have fewer people to work on the data base. Even within Sydney City suburban area there would be maybe six or more growing zones. There must be some online data bases run by Botanic Gardens or others that could be adapted to permaculture use. I find it incredibly frustrating trying to get just specific PH information on garden plants. Information which I think should be in the first line of any description of a plant & its' growing needs. I have a personal problem with permaculture so will confess my heresy now Many plants I plant are for the soul not for the stomach or I find them interesting because of their medicinal, perfumery or historical uses. (I am still tying to get seeds of the Violin Bow tree- I posted a thread on that here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4954&p=31201&hilit=Violin#p31201 ) [/quote:15dk8374] Well all that sounds very negative, I am sorry. Perhaps you need to be a lot younger than me to start such a project. "The longest journey starts with the first step" So over to you guys.
Re: Species List for Permaculturists ? Have you tried the "Plants for a Future" site? https://www.pfaf.org/database/index.php I've used it practically everyday for years, they have around 7000 plants & are permacuture inspired, you can search by habitat, they are based in England which is fairly compatiable to conditions here in NZ. I like to think of ecological horticulture/permacuture at this point in time as pioneering research, we have to make the species lists.
Re: Species List for Permaculturists ? haha i made a post forever ago trying to get people inspired to make a website that could provide this kind of information, no one replied (except ho hum, thank by the way) searching plants by region they have been grown successfully in, place in the garden(vine, root, veg, big trees or small, bushes, mushrooms), species that compliment, people who have seeds, seedlings, etc... plants for a future is a really good website imo, if they could incorporate some more layers it could be really potent.
Re: Species List for Permaculturists ? We have over 900 species here, and many of them are medicinals, which have a purpose. Some of them have commercial value, and some of them are rare or endangered. We have done ethnobotanical collecting of specimens, and many of the plants have multiple uses. Even ornamentals, which some permaculturists poo poo, attract pollinators, plus cut flowers on the table look nice today, and make great mulch tomorrow! Michaleangelica, I think growing perfumery, medicinal and plants that are good for the soul is completely within the definition of permaculture. I have a list of species, very incomplete, in excel, with columns that list their names, common and scientific, what family they belong to, wether they are food, fiber, medicinal, suitable for share, if they are leguminous, if they are used as timber, how high they grow, what products they produce (timber, fruit, resins), what services they provide (soil retention, suitable for bee fodder, suitable for ruminant feed). I cannot find the oldest version (I bought a new computer and forgot what the new xcl doc is called. I think it is a good way to take stock of what plants you have. This list below is very incomplete! I have a conservation biologist coming here for a year and part of what she is doing is cataloging species. The list below does not include any of the ethnobotanical work, and some of the species, like kiwano, we no longer have. Below is a messy look at the first three columns, species name, family and common name. If anyone wants the whole list, I can send it, PM me your email, and I will send it to you. You can copy the columns and use them. Abelmoschus esculentas Malvaceae okra Acacia cornigera Mimosaceae cockspur (acacia w/ants) Acalypha arvensis Euphorbiaceae cancer herb Adiantum tenerum Polypodiaceae maidenhair fern Agave americana Agavaceae century plant / agave Alocasio macrorrhiza Araceae wild coco Aloe barbadensis Liliaceae aloe Alpinia speciosa Zingiberaceae shell ginger Alternanthera flavogrisea Amaranthaceae golondrina (bad boy) Amaranthus sp. Amaranthaceae collaloo Anacardium occidentale Anacardiacea cashew Ananas comosus Bromeliaceae pineapple Annona cherimola x A. squamosa Annonaceae atemoya Annona muricata Annonaceae soursop Annona purpurea Annonaceae too-kib Annona reticulata Annonaceae local purple annona Annona squamosa Annonaceae cerimoya Anthurium schlechtendalii Araceae pheasant tail Arachis hypogaea Fabaceae peanut Arachis pintoi Fabaceae arachis pintoi Arachis pintoi Fabaceae arachis pintoi Aristolochia trilobata Aristolochiaceae contribo Artemisia sp. Compositae artemisia Artocarpus altilis Moraceae breadfruit Artocarpus altilis 'Seminifera' Moraceae breadnut Artocarpus heterophyllus Moraceae jackfruit Averrhoa carambola Averrhoaceae carambola Azadirachta indica neem Bambusa vulgaris Bambusaceae local yellow bamboo Basella alba Basellaceae malabar spinach Bauhinia sp. Caesalpiniaceae lavender flowered Venezuelan bauhinia Bauhinia sp. Caesalpiniaceae Peten Guatemalan white flowered small bauhinia Bixa orellana Bixaceae anatto / achiote Blighia sapida Sapindaceae akee Bougainvillea brasiliensis Nyctaginaceae purple bougainvillea Brassica rapa Chinensis group Crucifera Chinese cabbage Brosimum alicastrum Moraceae ramon Brossimum Alicastrum Moraceae red ramon, kahkey ash Bursera simaruba Burseraceae gumbo limbo Byrsonima crassifolia Malpighiaceae crabu Caesalpinia pulcherrima Caesalpiniaceae Pride of Barbados Cajanus cajan Fabaceae pigeon pea Calliandra confusa Leguminoseae calliandra Cananga odorata Annonaceae ylang-ylang Canavalia ensiformis Fabaceae canavalia Capsicum spp. Solanaceae various peppers: bird, habanero, etc. Carica papaya Caricaceae papaya Cassia fistula Caesalpiniaceae golden shower Cassia grandis Caesalpiniaceae bukut Castilla elastica Moraceae rubber tree Cedrela odorata Meliaceae cedar Ceiba pentandra Bombacaceae ceiba Chrysophyllum cainito Sapotaceae star apple Cnidoscolus chayamansa Euphorbiaceae chaya Cocos nucifera Arecaceae coconut Coix lacryma-jobi Poaceae Job's tears Cordia alliodora Ehretiaceae sam wood / laurel Coriandrum sativum Apiaceae cilantro Crescentia cujete or C. acuminita Bignoniaceae calabash Croton spp. Euphorbiaceae santa maria (male) Cucumis metuliferus Cucurbitaceae kiwano Cymbopogon citratus Poaceae lemon grass Dalbergia sissoo Leguminoseae rosewood Delonix regia flamboyant Desmodium gyroides Leguminaseae desmodium Dioscorea alata Dioscoreaceae flying potato Dioscorea alata Dioscoreaceae wild yam Diospyros digyna Ebenaceae black sapote Diospyros discolor Ebenaceae velvet apple Enterolobium cyclocarpum Mimosoideae guanacaste Eriobotrya japonica Rosaceae loquat Eryngium foetidum Apiaceae sumat / koolantro Erythrina berteroana Fabaceae erythrina Erythrina sp. Fabaceae immortelle Eugenia uniflora Myrtaceae Surinam cherry Ficus maxima Moraceae fig Flacourtia indica Flacourtiaceae gooseberry Gauzuma ulmifolia Sterculiaceae bay cedar Glyricidia sepium Fabaceae madre de cacao Guilielma gasipaes Araceae peach palm Hamelia patens Rubiaceae red head (cloush pim) Heliconia caribaea Heliconiaceae wahmil / heliconia Hibiscus rosa-sinensis Malvaceae hibiscus Hibiscus sp. Malvaceae sorrel / te de Jamaica Hura crepitans Euphorbiaceae ash-tray tree Hylocereus undatas Cactaceae pita aya Hyptis verticillata Lamiaceae john charles Inga edulis Mimosaceae bri-bri Inga sp. Mimosaceae local bri-bri Ipomoea aquatica Convolvulaceae kang kong Ipomoea batatas Convolvulaceae sweet potato Jatropha curcus Euphorbiaceae physic nut Kalanchoe pinnata Crassulaceae life everlasting Lablab purpureus Fabaceae lab lab bean Leucaena latisiliqua Mimosaceae leucaena Litchi chinensis Sapindaceae lychee Luffa cylindrica Cucurbitaceae luffa / loofah Mangifera indica Anacardiacea mango Manihot esculenta Euphorbiaceae cassava Manilkara zapota Sapotaceae sapodilla Melina arborea Verbenaceae melina Mimusops elengi Sapotaceae Spanish cherry Mirabilis jalapa Nyctaginaceae 4 o'clock Monstera deliciosa Araceae delicious monster Moringa oleifera Moringaceae moringa Moringa stenopetala Moringaceae moringa Morus alba Moraceae mulberry Mucuna pruriens Fabaceae mucuna / abone Neurolaena lobata Asteraceae jackass bitters Ochroma lagopus Bombacaceae balsa Ocimum basilicam Lamiaceae local basil Ocimum sanctum Lamiaceae tulsi basil Ocimum sp. Lamiaceae spicy basil Opuntia sp. Cactaceae prickly pear / nopales Orbignya cohune Araceae cohune Pachira aquatica Bombacaceae Malabar chestnut / cacao de monte Pachyrhizus erosus Fabaceae jicama Passiflora quadrangularis Passifloraceae grenadilla / big passionfruit Paullinia tomentosa Sapindaceae cross vine(parasitic vine) Persea americana Lauraceae avocado Phoradendron piperoides Viscaceae wiss Physalis philadelphica Solanaceae tomatilla Pimenta dioica Myrtaceae allspice / pence Pimenta dioica Myrtaceae pens, pence, allspice Piper amalago Piperaceae buttonwood Piper sp. Piperaceae cowfoot / Santa Maria Piscidia piscipula Fabaceae jabin Pluchea odorata Asteraceae santa maria (female) Plumeria rubra Apocynaceae frangipani Portulaca oleracea Portulaceae purslane Pouteria campechiana Sapotaceae canistel Pouteria sapota Sapotaceae mamey sapote Priva lappulaceae Verbenaceae mosote Protium sp. Burseraceae white copal, pom Psidium guajava Myrtaceae guava Psophocarpus tetragonolobus Fabaceae wing bean Psychotria tennifolia Rubiaceae dog's tongue Ricinus communis Euphorbiaceae castor bean Rollinia deliciosa Annonaceae rollinia Rosa chinensis Rosaceae rose Saccharum officinarum Poaceae sugarcane Salvia coccinea Lamiaceae chacalpec Schizolobium parahybum Leguminaseae quamwood Sechium edule Cucurbitaceae cho cho Senna alata Caesalpiniaceae piss a bed Sesamum indicum Pedaliacea sesame Sida rhombifolia Malvaceae escoba Smilax spp. Smilacaceae china root Sorghum bicolor Poaceae sorghum Spathodea campanulata Bignoniaceae African tulip tree Sphagneticola trilobata Asteraceae rabbit's paw Spondias dulcis Anacardiacea golden plum Spondias mombin Anacardiacea May plum Swietenia macrophylla Meliaceae mahogany Symphytum officinale Boraginaceae comfrey Syngonium podophyllum Araceae contra hierba Syzgium aqueum Myrtaceae water apple Syzgium jambos Myrtaceae rose apple Syzgium malaccense Myrtaceae molly (Malay) apple Syzgium samarangense Myrtaceae wax jambu Tabebuia ochracea Bignoniaceae cortez Tabebuia pentaphylla Bignoniaceae cortez Tabebuia rosea Bignoniaceae mayflower Tagetes sp. Compositae marigold Tamarindus indica Caesalpiniaceae tamarind Tephrosia purpurea Fabaceae tephrosia Terminalia catappa Combretaceae sea almond Theobroma cacao Sterculiaceae cacao Tithonia diversifolia Asteraceae titonia Vanilla planifolia Orchidaceae vanilla Vigna radiata Fabaceae mung beans Vigna unguiculata Fabaceae cow pea Zea mays Poaceae corn Caesalpiniaceae Doles carob Bignoniaceae mayflower
Re: Species List for Permaculturists ? a computer program could probably make mandalas for people and plan edibe fences for people based on their desires, by studying the plant guilds, light and soil requirements, etc. i have seen gardening programs that will allow you to do very crude design with graphical interface, there is no open source version and you have to buy them. it would be nice to see something for linux that is powerful and useful available freely, and that could access a database like this to aid the layman and professional alike. users could find out what other users are doing in their gardens, making a sort of region specific calander available. local native plants and successfully grown exotics immediately become known, according to their classification and uses.
Re: Species List for Permaculturists ? those are good ideas inahd, but the amount of work involved would be staggering. I work for a small (geographically speaking) local government, and I'm good friends with the Strategic Tree Planning Officer. He's currently working (pretty much full time) on a project for our Council website which will be an interactive map regarding the different tree growing "regions" of our LGA, and lists of the appropriate species for each region. This will be so that residents will be able to click on their street on a map to receive a planting list, and the lists will include hyperlinks to further information on each of the recommended species. It's going to be a great resource, but it is literally taking my friend months of full-time work to pull it all together, and a lot of expert technical advice. It's great to have "big ideas" and to plan for the long term, but you run the risk of getting paralysed by aspiring to impossible tasks.
Re: Species List for Permaculturists ? Somehow I think the idea of a 'Permie' species list is about as useful as tits on a bull!! Plants are plants and are only as useful as we want to make them and as appropriate to the 75 million microclimates that exist! Published climate zones are the biggest waste of time since toothpaste. Look around you. What grows where? Bother to do some research as to the cultural properties of each speciesto decide whether or not it pertains to the permaculture principles you are trying to achieve. I have had hundreds of 'permies' ask me why this or that plant has not worked, and they've read it in this or that text and it should work. Such simplified and common denominator lists are fraught with error and provide little more than a gross disservice to the betterment of the Permaculture industry. General databases of 'permaculture plants' do no more than the general nursery industry to promote sustainable land use and may in turn turn new, enthusiastic people away from the wonderful potentials of community engagement. Anyone who teaches or promotes Permaculture would do well to remember that it is essentially a design discipline and that species selection is secondary to how we manage the land. Phil
West Coast Food Forestry As an artist I'd certainly agree that PC is primarily the design of whole systems, on-site, in person. But if trends continue then it's pretty clear (at least to me) that the permaculture movement will inevitably give rise to a globally integrated knowledge-base. I hail from the west coast of North America. This PDF is a great read, 13MB worth, many many species well organized with photos too: https://www.natetaylor.net/permaculture/food_forest.pdf
