sites to avoid

Discussion in 'General chat' started by paradisi, Aug 9, 2008.

  1. paradisi

    paradisi Junior Member

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    There's quite a few garden or garden related web site on the internet and for one reason or another some of them go bad.

    this thread is to have a whinge - make it constructive, I know I will, and try to generate some idea of whats good and what's worth thinking about.

    Jumping into the deep end always works better if you have waterwings..... LOL

    My first nomination is aussieslivingsimply.com.au

    my beef is that I've tried to create a thread about my most recent problem with cats - its been discussed here on many occasions. I've had cat threads deleted and one person - doc - deleting everything I've posted since this afternoon and not even bothering to explain why. doc is a regular on this site too. nothing I've said on the other site differs from what I've said here. everyone knows I'm a cat hater - but the thing that got me today was the kids who will suffer because a cat was allowed to roam onto my property and my dog got it.

    I couldn't even discuss that. everytime i try to do anything my IP address gets banned from the server software. primative and easily got around but a pain in the arse.

    If you go there - enjoy your visit but be warned there are serious problems.


    OK - so which other sites are a worry?? can think of several - -gardenweb that american advertising site comes to mind

    Sorry if I;ve stood on toes on this site as far as modertation goes - if I have delete delete delete
     
  2. JoanVL

    JoanVL Junior Member

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    Re: sites to avoid

    Well, I like cats (the neutered, stay-in-at night type only) but hate censorship, so whinge away to your heart's content about cats as far as I'm concerned. I won't show your posts to Mao, the 5 year-old neutered moggy we took over when his owners moved to a National Park.

    Some sites show great promise but disappoint me in that not much happens on them, such as 'Grow Local' https://www.growlocal.net.au/index.php?o ... &Itemid=30
     
  3. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    Re: sites to avoid

    g'day paradisi,

    mmm this could be interesting, might not also but anyway here goes.

    als yup like most vibrant forums attracts the good, the bad and the ugly, and as is human nature when you put some people in charge with the guranteed anonimity of the 'net, well the power and the glory rules supreme hey?

    now as for cats, and i support those oh so very few responsible cat owners who try to, or do the right thing, but as for those other moggies (ans any moggie not in its owners full charge is a ferel), well i won't go further but i'd rather see more birds, frogs and reptiles than hear their bewailing calls of a flea ridden moggie through the night. a ferel cat on its own was once someones pet hey?

    now garden web US of A style, well i suppose once you get an inkling of those running it, the lust for add's derived money runs amock, and don't even think of offereing and objective critisism on the forum you will be karate'd post haste. they the power managers listen to some person who hasn't a life who dobs you in and you get sent to disney land untill you go down in a prostrate position and with much grovelling and foot kissing they may recant. i have been to disney land (you'll laugh if you ever hear why) and also had post magically get deleted without explanation, but ah well if that's where they get their exitement, that's their loss. even tried to respond to post on their permy forum folk looking for a better forum to subscribe to they blocked this link.

    anyhow i said all that to say all this as with cat owners there are good and bad in all places, me i try to stay within in their almost undefined ever changing rules and talk to those nice folk who are there.

    ther are very many other forums ruled by despotic goveners much worse than the 2 offered in these posts, i've been in them and long left, not even bothering to give them the finmality of me actually uinsubscribing, wouldn't give them the time of day, and probably nothing to gain mentioning them in an open forum, they will NEVER change, it's the nature of the beast.

    len
     
  4. ppp

    ppp Junior Member

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    Re: sites to avoid

    this isn't about cats, it is about freedom of expression.

    I'm really sorry to hear about aussies living simply acting in that way, I was just discovering the site and am tempted to go no further and not contribute because of what you have said.

    Let me take this opportunity to thanks the people responsible for a great forum, but also the people here for good discussions which are often lively but (i hope) never offend against other's right to an opinion.
     
  5. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Re: sites to avoid

    ALS is a very intolerant site - my opinion ex military commandant still wants to rule over some one - and make sure his loyal followers do as he wants ...........
    although right now I wish I could use that rolleyes smiley that murray took away :wink: but still as censorship it is minor - I forgive you muray :D but t tdoes cramp my style :lol:

    I got banned from als because I criticise the military - seems us mere civilians should just die in silence - zieg heil bald commandant :finga:

    frosty
     
  6. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

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    Re: sites to avoid

    Probably not a matter of avoiding sites but finding one that fits your realm.

    On the ALS site. It was started by a group from here and think at the time they had pretty well stated aims and were trying to avoid controversy and hot-under-the-collar type threads of which we had had a few. There was also a couple of folk who simply wished to create their own community/web site. Nothing wrong with any of this.

    Censorship. I can only vaguely remember a couple of threads on this site ever being deleted and they were knocked off for 'hate speech' from memory and I cant remember any complaints at the time.

    Topics to start if you want a fight: cats and permaculture, chemical use, Jews/Israel/Palestine. I am not saying these are topics to be avoided but these topics are likely to creae a lot of subjective discussion. I once started a link called 'cats as compost activators'.... :mrgreen: which I thought might get a few responses and it did... I posted the link with a smile but I did recieve more invective than I had imagined and I am pretty certain that discussion lost a few posters. No joy in that.

    cheers,,
     
  7. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    Re: sites to avoid

    yes all forums can be quirky, depends who's in charge i suppose, whether they can properly cope with the anonimity of their management role, i've been chatted a coupe of times at als, just for speeking openly but objectively stating the facts, if that's the way they want it then not much one can do hey? one of their managers told a christian on the group that they didn't trust christians to me that is targetting someone because you've learnt what that pesons beliefs are, i thought that was a little rich.

    i count on all of us being mature, and we always have the option of not reading or posing to a thread. and if we stay objective and state our position without getting personnal then all should remain calm, i reckon the main group will soon work out the dissenters.

    i've never had a problem here though at times i can voice my opposite opinion fairly well but i aim for objectivety, and try to maintain a constant line. but that is how we impart differences of ideas across the younger players.

    managers of forums always have the first options of asking a poster to recant or modify their post to water down the subjectivety or the personnality clash. i don't cut with a post being dumped without the poster knowing, that's happened to me a couple of times across the pacific in g/w.

    gee if we didn't have differences of opinion it's be pretty boring hey.

    as for the moggie threads i have strong opinions of moggies and their effects on wildlife, so i don't even read the threads, sorry ho-hum(grin).

    len
     
  8. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

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    Re: sites to avoid

    Moral is...

    Appreciate what we have and have at it. Post a new thread, be contentious... even get banned.

    Top of list... whilst we love debate here. This forum shouldnt be a performance accelerator for wankers. It is extremely difficult to run any forum... especially if you are trying to create a passive income based on chancers that are advo-permying the bejeesus out of a cybersustainable chat club. Really, ''my chook has two eyes, .... my corn has two ears, my coconut palm has 3 nuts - which one will drop on me''... haha..


    So Len and Frosty, I can see why you were denied. If I was trying to set up an economically viable site. I too, would do the advo-permy cybersustainable, 3cents a link, chat club and you would be at the top of my permaculture gun-sights.

    Let 'em enjoy their peace. If you have anything extravagant, you both post thoughtful posts, .. post it here..

    cheers,
     
  9. fuzzy butt

    fuzzy butt Junior Member

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    Re: sites to avoid

    Cats aren't my fave but i do have one and she's a delight (spayed of course! she's produced three, we were too slow, :? yeah I know my bad)
    My cat has a specific job to do and she does it, so we feed her. We had rats and mice from one end of the house to the other when we first moved there many years ago. Havent seen one since she turned around six months old.
    The only time I've seen her with wildlife in her mouth it's usually a rat but sometimes a rabbit kitten.

    One night I called her in and she had a baby possum in her mouth.........I thought oh ****. but to my surprise she didn't begin playing with it . She layed down and just kept hugging it. She was mothering it . She allowed me to take it away from her too (which she would never do if it was prey) I popped the possum outside in a tree.
    Yes cats are lean mean killing machines and that's why we have her . that's the whole point. And to note: there has not been a decrease in the number of possums and small wildlife around the property. But I do understand about the feral cat problem....I see enough of them, huge bloody things.

    what really gets me though is people who say they hate cats (and that's okay) but then have to give it a reason , so they tell the story about the enviroment . (Not saying anyone here is) It's just that if you hate cats for that reason then fine, I get it. But if you just hate cats persay......then just admit you hate them without the hubbabaloo of excuses.
     
  10. paradisi

    paradisi Junior Member

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    Re: sites to avoid

    just got an email from one of the admins at living simply - telling me why I've been kicked off - starting discussions that are controversial was the reason - I wasn't the on who went over the top with cats - my credo is simple - change the laws so that cats are treated the same as dogs - and stop the special treatment and privileges that cat owners get.

    and he's very happy - he has hundreds of people with the same ideas as himself on the site. so there won't be any discussion and not much sense.

    some of the experts there cry loud that seeds planted from fruit and vegies bought in shops won't come true to the parent - he sells plants made from cuttings. I tried to explain genetics and the theory of chance but got laughed down...

    or one woman who said bleach wouldn't removed mould - it just whitens it

    or the crying and tears of blood about the aussie government solar panel rebate being limited to people on less than $100,000 a year...... I mentioned that having $1,500 a week after tax wasn't really living simply and that those on that sort of income should be able to afford their free electricity without a government subsidy....

    It's worth the visit for the laugh about some peoples ideas of living simply - e.g. must have air con, must have dish washer, must have dryer..........
     
  11. fuzzy butt

    fuzzy butt Junior Member

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    Re: sites to avoid

    That's funny paradisi :lol: :lol:
     
  12. JoanVL

    JoanVL Junior Member

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    Re: sites to avoid

    I had a quick look at theat ALS site. At first glance it looks fine, though possibly a bit smug! Smugness is something I can't cope with as my life has been far from easy, I only care about what people are, not what they have, and I own next to nothing, not even my house, which is government owned.

    We have a normal-sized suburban garden, and I try to apply good organic methods. We have planted so many trees wherever we've lived, and that is a source of pride. On this forum I sometimes feel like I did in physics and chemistry lessons way back when I was young - it was immensely interesting but it seemed everyone was on top of the subject but me, as I struggled to get it right.

    But - nothing is absolute: I get a bit of info from ABC's 'Gardening Australia', and think Pete Cundall (who'se now left) has been a huge force for the good in spreading the sword about organic gardening. He is a lovely person. But often I find the smugness of some of the guest spots hard to take. It especially bothers me when they show how do things, and they 'only' cost X amount of dollars, X being way way out of my reach.

    So - I avoid the smug and the judgemental, both in forums and in life in general!
     
  13. spritegal

    spritegal Junior Member

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    Re: sites to avoid

    Well I've been a member of PRI and ALS for over 3 years and can say there have been controversial topics on both, and a million other websites to boot.

    Simple fact is, if you gain useful information from a website, you'll visit it. If you don't you won't.

    I don't have any problems with ALS, PRI, GardenWeb (or whatever). When joining I clicked on the "I agree" button and therefore agreed to a code of conduct (whatever that might be).

    I don't think whingeing about other websites is going to achieve many brownie points...remember the net is all about perception. Rarely does perception exactly correlate with reality in cyberspace (I think anyone who has had a RL internet date can vouch for that) :lol:


    Thanks for reading :)
     
  14. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Care2

    Care2 also have problems with the Oz Feral cat issue (Mostly Yanks)
    In the States they neuter them, then release.
    Of course this is crazy in Australia.

    Yet I have not seen much censorship; just ignorance of Australia's different environment re carnivorous animals.

    They are also upset about sheep musling and Australians eating kangaroos.
    SEE
    https://www.care2.com/news/search?sort=& ... ort=recent
    and do a search
     
  15. paradisi

    paradisi Junior Member

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    Re: sites to avoid

    One of the last things I did before starting to remove my posts was to quote voltaire.

    You know the one - I may not agree with what you say but I'll fight to the death to defend your right to say it. The Aussies living simply crowd have now come back and said I had a cheek for quoting voltaire because voltaire wouldn't have wanted to support someone saying something nasty. I nearly fell of my chair when I read those ones. LOL

    Haven't they read history? Don't they know why Voltaire said those words? Simple living Aussies.

    Anyway I'll continue my rant on my blog and also some good gardening tips and views of my place and what I grow... it's slowly starting.
     
  16. JoanVL

    JoanVL Junior Member

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    Re: sites to avoid

    I guess being from Yorkshire I find it hard to understand anyone having a problem with a good argument/debate. We were at it all the time back home!!! I realised that speaking your mind isn't really the thing to do here in Queensland in my last job. The boss was of German Jewish heritage - also an argumentative culture. I was the bookkeeper, he was an accountant and various financial decisions had to be made all the time, so we would argue loudly and sometimes it seemed angrily, until we could make a decision. The other staff felt threatened and upset sometimes.

    So - perhaps all this freedom of expression/argumentative behaviour is a cultural thing, in my case it was European culture v Australian culture.
     
  17. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    Re: sites to avoid

    g'day joan,

    a nose to nose stoush is something else, and of course others close by can duck for cover or have some understanding of the 2 opponents so to say.

    but with the almost guaranteed anonimity of the net and some who don't seem to be able to quantify that, topics can get too personnal once objectivety flies out the window, and then others need to be able to guage objective debate against subjective, my guess that could be hard for some?

    for me that is why i can't understand some of the post of mine in otehr forums being pulled as i never get subjective and target a psoter but put my point of view across probably fairly strongly at times. but that to me is objective no one has to like what i say anymore than me having to like what soemone else may say, but we do have the right of voicing our opinion.

    and i have german forebears so yep a good debate stirs the corpuscles.

    len
     
  18. paradisi

    paradisi Junior Member

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    Re: sites to avoid

    the thing that tipped the cart was me daring to comment on a cat being hurt in my yard and how I felt sorry for the kids because of uncaring parents.

    I got tipped from the site. And after geoff/doc telling me that all of the people there are like him/them I gave up. They can have their little circle...

    The last thing I'll say about ALS is I posted a quote by Voltaire - your probably know - it - "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it". Some on ALS came back and said that Voltaire wouldn't have wanted his quote applied to someon who says something nasty (like I did about uncaring cat owners)
    and my vitriole will be limited to my blog from now on..... tho if I find any more classics like bleach only whitening mould not killing it thread (on ALS) or the fuss and bother on ALS about the solar panel rebate not being paid to families on more than $100,00 (LOL - that's $1500 a week after tax and they still wanted the government to help provide their free electricty) I'll make sure everyone knows.

    Have a look at my blog and let me know what you think - and I won't be deleting any comments unless you get libelous
     
  19. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: sites to avoid

    Surprising and sad reaction
    Where did this happen?
     
  20. paradisi

    paradisi Junior Member

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    Re: sites to avoid

    happened on aussies living simply

    and I found out today that the national library keeps copies of all or most of australias web sites and discussion forums for posterity.

    It's sad that the future will get such a distorted view of how things were in Australia at this point in time - there are so many web sites closing off discussion about cats and changing discussions to suite the owners point of view - future historians will get a very strange picture of the way things were.

    And its not just discussions about cats, some of the worst are the general discussion sites where whole swathes of opinion being deleted because the point of view isn't in line with those who moderate sites.

    I wrote off to the federal and state ministers to see if they can get something done about cat laws..... for those outside australia - we have a three tiered system of government - federal, state and local
     

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