Simpler Way

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by andyo, Jun 20, 2006.

  1. andyo

    andyo Junior Member

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    Some interesting reading. Google in "Ted Trainer" and read on. I imagine a few of the regulars here will have heard of this bloke and if you haven't, his research and literature really does make for interesting reading.
     
  2. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    As i see it we either stop Population increase or Nature will do it..

    NO CHOICE Or OUR CHOICE

    Tezza
     
  3. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    Yes, very interesting. :!:

    "Ted Trainer argues that although the planet cannot be saved without Permaculture, not enough people in the movement realise where Permaculture has to fit into the solution."

    https://socialwork.arts.unsw.edu.au/tsw/ ... rmcul.html?

    He doesn't mince words, though I was under the impression that there is a significant "Fundamental economic, political and cultural change" element to Permaculture. In fact there is, in chapter 14 of the Designers' Manual. But I have to admit I hadn't paid much attention to it, until reading this critique. :oops:
     
  4. earthbound

    earthbound Junior Member

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    Yep......... So true.......... :D

    Ted should be in politics, he has the sort of ideals I would love to vote for....
     
  5. Boab

    Boab Junior Member

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    Perhaps before we all start planning a political career for Mr Trainer, perhaps learning to refrain from being so arrogant and equally dismissive would be his first learning curve prior to doing so.

    Unless, that is, we are striving to initiate Johnny Howard clones into the system for our collective 'enjoyment'.

    Irrespective of where one stands on the permaculture saves the world issue, if you are unable to communicate effectively, you're useless. And, from what I've read, while his ideas are commendable, Mr Trainer is about as useful as $10 in a brothel because he does not communicate on an inclusive level.

    And there is always a choice, Tezza :)
     
  6. earthbound

    earthbound Junior Member

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    But is it arrogance Boab? He's not full of self-importance or pushing himself as being superior in any way, but merely making geralisations and puting forth thoeries about how and where things can go wrong. Reinforcing a side to permaculture that is often overlooked and/or forgotten.

    Perhaps he is taken a larger view point and speaking more about ideologies rather than the nuts and bolts of day to day manual permaculture practices that we are generally consumed with. This is mainly the topic of conversations on this board because it's what effects us in our day to day lives, but we can all do with a little boot in the backside now and then to remind us about the state of the world and where we are heading as a planet.

    It's so easy to forget about real global issues that we face when your worried about what the hell is eating your cabbages, and why your chooks have gone off the lay, and in a way, to be consumed by these issues rather than some of the issues that he has mentioned, isn't this a greater form of arrogance.. Isn't it arrogant to say that someone is as useful as $10 in a brothel?

    This is a quandry I have been contemplating about aquaponics, it's all very well for lots of people to be building little systems in their backyards, as people are starting to do. But realistically this is just using up more resources, creating inefficient small scale systems that in reality probably aren't very productive in providing food. It's more of a hobby, as someone might have a little fish pond and some herbs in pots. The real benefit of aquaponics is in large scale production, large efficient systems in back yards, and large efficient commercial systems, but things have to start somewhere.

    I feel that he does communicate on an inclusive level, and I connected with what he has to say, but then, thats just me. Though if he managed to connect with me, I'm sure he will connect with some others as well, and that makes him way more useful than any vagrant hanging around a brothel. :D
     
  7. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Joel, I don't know what energy inputs are required to set up an aquaponics scheme, but surely in the long run, to do it locally saves the planet energy, vs the shipping food over vast distances model.
    That is how Permaculture design can save the world, by making all that other shit redundant. :D
     
  8. Sonya

    Sonya Junior Member

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    This discussion seems to be going the way of the PDC discussion - informal vs formal, wild vs ordered, academic vs grassroots?

    Dare I say that we need people who can debate permaculture on an academic level just as we need 'backyard' gardeners who only have their (extensive) hands on experience and have never done a formal course.

    Don't we need permaculture on all levels; community gardens, home gardens, school gardens, scientific research, global projects, whole villages???

    Sonya.
     
  9. earthbound

    earthbound Junior Member

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    Richard, I guess it's the fact that so far, people aren't making highly productive food producing system, more just smaller systems for fun..

    I think you hit the nail on the head there Sonya, biodiversity.
     
  10. barely run

    barely run Junior Member

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    My husband takes the view of Ted Trainer ....all the backyard small farm permaculture practice isn't going to balance the massive destruction caused daily to the enviroment by the new economic developments in India and China etc etc
    But we all do what we can, make our own enviroment as health as possible, support global activites when we can and join in the disscussions whenever the opportunity presents.
    Cathy
     
  11. grease

    grease Junior Member

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    It's a case of keep your shit local, literally and figeratively. Sit on your helmet ( like they do in the helicopters in Apocolypse Now) because it's gonna be a rough landing. The future is going to be very interesting. :oops: :cry: :?
     
  12. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    The Permaculture Association of Tasmania (PAT) have set a goal to make Tasmania "The Permaculture State". It's pretty ambitious; involving influencing the policies of business, local government, and ultimately, state government. There isn't time to figure out how to do it, just to undertake to do it, and let the "how" sort itself out along the way.

    I think this is the sort of thing Ted Trainer is talking about; more than just gardens and compost.

    It's going to take a lot of work and a lot of support just to get any sort of movement happening. I urge everyone to lend a hand.

    https://www.permaculturetas.org/
     

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