Sharing your land with a friend

Discussion in 'Designing, building, making and powering your life' started by bazman, Dec 18, 2005.

  1. bazman

    bazman Junior Member

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    Hi All

    I have been thinking about an idea I have had for a while now, and that is sharing my food producing land with another family or premie who does not have access to a larger area like this or the resources to own land in this area, What I was thinking was to offer a deal with someone where they help with development and upkeep of the food producing gardens in return for a fair share of what the food producing area offers.

    Has anyone here tried something like this before, I know about woofers and have thought about that but thought developing a friendship with someone with the same outlook who lives locally that would enjoy and benefit from having their own produce.

    I work really hard here and development is always moving forward but having that extra pair of hands and fresh ideas would go a long way in developing the area. I'm still learning the basics and i'm always open to ideas.

    I'm not talking about cheap labor or anything like that, just a fair deal where both parties are happy to grow happy healthy foods together.

    Any advice on the subject would be great.
     
  2. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    Might be worth looking at a community garden type set up Bazman:


    Australian City Farms And Community Gardens Network


    You might be able to come to an agreement with one or more people along these lines. Best of luck with it anyway, good to see someone willing to share the hardest thing to get hold of...land.
     
  3. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

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    Baz,

    Great idea. I would hesitate if they werent a permie though. Best still would be if a PDC was run at your place so they could understand the entire concept of it better.

    I left a very good conventional gardener in charge of my place who, I thought, had an understanding of permaculture. He had spent time in my garden and asked a lot of questions. I was away for 3 weeks but came home early.

    1. Fixed a leaky sprinkler that created a microclimate for my mint & parsley in our hot climate.

    2. Straightened another sprinkler that hit orchids I had growing under my rain tree hanging on wires.

    3. Moved the orchids into the shade house.

    4. Tossed out of the shade house pots of lawn runners & birdseed I had growing.

    5. Put horehoud & khaki burr on/in a compost heap for a few days and then spread the compost around a red gum that needed no encouragement.

    6. Thinned out my cabbages. I plant stack a lot, especially them.

    7. Weeded my vegie garden [removing all the volunteer amaranth plants].

    8. Tightened the wire on the chook pen up all 'nice and tight' allowing a number of escapes and then clipped the wings of my Sebright Bantams [show birds] so they couldnt fly/run up the wire.

    9. Mowed the dead long grass back & away from my veggie garden fence which allowed weeds to establish outside and removed the windbreak protection.

    10. Thrown the sticks out of the vegie garden. I used branches with straw [long grass] on them to form microclimates for seedlings/seeds. As well as removing my willy wagtail perch from my garden.

    11. Burned my dead tree/branch collection cos of a snake. Which then moved under the house. Possibly killed a brown banded tree snake which frequented our clothesline at night. Consequently turning our outside bathroom back into a green tree frog haven.

    12. Left horses in the house yard overnight. We did this but never supervised and only for a couple of hours a time on the lawn. They ate the tops out of the palm trees & cycads.

    13. Got rid of a family of rare leaf-tailed geckos that lived behind a painting in our loungeroom and terrified a pair of flycatchers that called our breezeway home, only one ever came back.

    14. Pulled down a fairly low hanging nondescript branch that the willy wagtails nested on, as part of his clean up.

    15. Removed the sticks & mulch off the lil pathways in the vegie garden.

    16. Let his 12yo son use my air rifle!! I found dead golden bowerbirds and 1 dead northern rosella. I will never know but have my suspicions.

    It was all done with the very best of intentions, he had worked very hard. My point is mostly that we permies often have ''bigger'' values than even organic gardeners.

    I now know his wife hates reptiles and most animals except cats & horses. They came to babysit our place for him to get her some experience 'out of town'.

    As permies, you guys can all understand my perspective because by anyone's normal standards the guy had done a great job which I thanked him for. We are still friends. He now lives on 5 acres with 3 cats and 3 horses a huge lawn and a shed full of chemicals... :?

    Cheers

    Mike
     
  4. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Floot, that post qualifies as great literature in my humble opinion!
     
  5. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Floot,

    Good points, and very funny.

    Thanks,

    C
     
  6. sab

    sab Junior Member

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    ouch,

    I feel for you Floot. Neat and tidy vs practical.

    I had similar (but not as big) experiences when a helper 'cleaned' up our yard here in Manila and gave my palms a 'haircut' so they looked stupid and trimmed the 'rubbish' on the path - the aerial roots to the plants I had growing up the garden wall - effectively killing them.

    I had leaf mulch on the front area but our neighbours insisted we burn it because "it breeds mosquitos". Filpinos generally seem to hate dead leaves and think they should be burnt. They often sweep and burn under trees so diligently the roots are exposed.

    In Aus I gave a tenant greatly reduced rent ($55 vs $120) on his promise to water the trees and take care of the yard... I came back after a year and half my trees were dead and I was ripped off even of 3 months rent. I should have learned - later he came back and I agreed again (very stupid of me but he was a good talker) to reduce his rent if he gave me a hand. Eventually he threatened to burn the place down so I had to get him evicted and he charged me for the work he agreed to do in lieu of rent... which I had to pay to get him out.
     
  7. Cornonthecob

    Cornonthecob Junior Member

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    A community garden is a great idea Baz!

    But you need to be careful....research lots..talk to those already doing it..look at the legal side of things...come up with a good set of rules/principles before asking people to join up!

    Maybe incorporate a CSA into the whole scheme of things?

    :)
     
  8. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    g'day bazman, all,

    please allow me to tell you of my recent experiences re: sharing the land.

    i'm broke, in the traditional 'got no money' kinda sense. so i can't just go out there and purchase land. not that i would want to anyways, plenty of good land, or better still, degraded land out there just waiting for a lending hand. i'm 'rich' in many other ways, but, full of enthusiasm, passion, ideas, and a love for permaculture and all that it stands for. i'm not alone, there are many others, just like me, who are waiting for a chance.

    some time ago i advertised calling for that "chance", a "fair go", to share in the labours of others in order to produce for our requirements. the response was overwhelming! i received offers from all around australia, and a few from os. all genuine in their giving, and all out to serve no other pupose than to 'share the labour and the spoils'. i am now very happily providing a service to several local properties, none of which do i receive 'payment', so i'm still broke in the traditional sense, but all of which do i receive payment in kind; friendship, fruit and veg, experience, guidence, and the chance to land a hand and 'make a difference' david holmgren says that permaculture begins under our own teo feet; bill mollison says that permaculture begins at our own back door; i say that permaculture begins in our own mind. spread the goodwill and they will come! treat them well and they will stay! teach them well and they will go on to share the ideal!

    sure there are a few people out there who are just waiting to exploit your kindness and generousity, but they are certainly outweighed by the numbers who are genuinely interested in making their world - and ours - a better place. there are even quite a few out there who have the best intentions, but fail (in our eyes) through lack of guidence. these are the people we must reach out to, they are ripe for conversion to the permaculture ethos. they don't need our wrath (even though its hard not to be upset when someone comes and 'weeds' your garden bed and removes all of the beneficial 'companions'), they need our understanding and guidance, but above all, they need a chance.

    so, bazman, i applaud you in your intention to share the land, and i encourage you, and anyone else, to put the word out. ask and you shall receive; seek and you shall find; nurture and we shall all reap the benefits.

    it doesn't matter where your 'helpers'/sharecroppers come from, what does matter is that they are there. provide the positive encouragement and just like your food forests and gardens, your 'help' will bloom and spread good seed.

    permaculture by stealth. together we can permaculturalise the world!

    peace and love, friends.
     
  9. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

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    Widge,

    I had tenants that were a bit similar. I let them in at a peppercorn rent due to them having financial hassles etc, when I eventually got rid of them. I am 750kms away. They went alright but before they left they had a lawn sale and sold my electric fence unit, pressure pump, irrigation controller, fencing materials, vice & workbench and a huge garden light I had rescued that had historical value. They also sold an original overland telegraph pole [a steel one which I had permission to have].

    I said I would burn my house down before I let tenants in again. When the place was going to be empty again I had probably 15-20 enquiries for the place. The house is stuffed but the place and position is lovely.

    NOW, I do, again, have a tenant. He is a farmer's son and a tradesman, we swapped fencing & work for rent. He has done a tremendous job and I couldnt be more pleased, he has a dozen horses on the place and looks after 1 of ours. He has lived virtually rent free and I have had fencing done and genuine peace of mind.

    Floot
     
  10. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    How often do you get back home Floot? It's one heck of a long drive right...or do you fly in and out?
     
  11. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

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    Jez,

    I did drive it a lot when had family on one end and myself on the other. My business, at that point, gave me the time.

    Now family are here with me. I have 18 months to go on a big contract then home to the farm for good.

    This Christmas is special too. We will own our property outright.

    If you ever get the chance Jez, this is one of Australia's great drives from Katherine to Nhulunbuy although you need a permit for the road.

    I did drive my Holden Astra in 18 months ago, we just dragged it backwards thru the river crossings with my 4wd but it really isnt a track suitable for 2wd vehicles. Too easy to take something out underneath with the rocks etc.

    Cheers

    Mike
     
  12. sab

    sab Junior Member

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    Hi Floot,

    My sister used to live in Nhulunbuy and we had the opportunity to go there for a month in 1972. I loved it. We needed a special permit to get in. It's a pretty special place. My bro-in-law worked for the DCA.

    I've got good tenants now. My bad one played up a week before I was leaving for the Philippines so it was ultra stressful, especially when I discovered my insurance didn't cover me for malicious damage. I had so much to do (which we had agreed on). I prayed to meet someone that could help without delay and the next day was put in touch with an expert who removed him with the minimum of fuss for a case of beer. Then a friend of my sis moved in for a year and I could breathe easily.

    Also I decided to plant drought and frost hardy natives last time I was there and they've all grown heaps.
     
  13. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    Good onya Floot (if I switch to Mike we'll get confused again! ;-))...sounds like you've got a very special Christmas coming up and a lot to look forward to over the next few years.

    I'd love to see the Territory and northern WA...I don't suspect I'll get there because we're not going to be in a position to be taking holidays in the next few years without feeling the money could have been better spent elsewhere.

    I've enjoyed reading your stories from the Top End...that'll have to do me... :lol:
     
  14. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

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    Widgee

    I doubt much has changed from 1972 till October 2004.. ALCAN... the new owners announced they were spending 2 billion dollars on an upgrade.

    The town has gone mad. Apparently tomorrow there will be a jet movement in and out of Gove every 40 minutes.

    Here is the website if you havent seen it... https://www.nhulunbuy.com/

    I am here 'making hay while the sun shines'... and pretty much have the rest of my life off, starting in 18 months.

    Cheers

    Floot
     
  15. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    MMMMMMMMM ...bloody rentees, Its funny how someones thoughtfullness is anothers O.M.G


    Tezza
     

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