Sharing arrangement with our land

Discussion in 'Designing, building, making and powering your life' started by frosty, Feb 6, 2009.

  1. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    We have a bit of an idea and I thought I would post it to see if anyone is interested and also to gets on feedback on drawbacks and /or ways to improve it

    We own our 8.5 acres in a special rural estate not very far from Perth and 20km from a small coastal town. We are both in our late 50s and on the pension me disability hubby is my Carer. I am in a wheelchair and also have trouble using my hands so hubby has to do all the gardening and goats plus care for me. We do get Disability Services funding to pay for respite and home help but can’t use all of it because we can’t find anyone to do it out here.

    Our idea is that we built one of those barn houses as an addition to our house and find a suitable person or preferably a couple to occupy it in a sort of rental/ share arrangement. We need some rent to pay for the loan to build the “house”, but can also offer some small wage for about 5 or 6 hours respite care while hubby has a day off. (No qualifications needed basically it’s just someone to stay with me and get my lunch. The ladies now clean and sometimes cook muffins etc it could also be doing a bit of light gardening )

    So it could end up being very cheap accommodation especially if the other party is also a pensioner and eligible for rent assistance. We could share the gardens and gardening work. We can provide free goats milk in exchange for a bit of help and occasional relief milking (we can teach them how) We also have chooks and ducks with room for more, and 2 large ponds just waiting for fish or marron and an aquaponics system. So I would think (hope) it will give someone the benefits of having a large bit of land at a low cost or maybe even close to free rent ( depends on our borrowing costs ), and we can help each other and share the work.
    Now the maybe drawbacks – the people would need to be real power misers (like we are) and I am not sure how to work out power payment. We have a grid feed system and never pay for power – we make an average of 10 units per day over the year and use 4 to 6 units a day that includes running 2 freezers and a fridge but we cook with wood or a plug in hot plate. We would hope to find someone who would also be willing to cook with wood and would use about the same amount of power so hopefully the property can stay carbon neutral or close to it for power.
    With the danger of the ponds (1 is 2m deep ) plus needing to build a fairly small house it would not suit anyone with children.
    The agreement would be strictly no chemicals like pesticides or strong solvents or commercial disinfectant or similar toxic stuff to come onto the property EVER because I am extremely chemically sensitive. With having a grey water system that feeds the gardens no supermarket type cleaning products to be used. We make unscented goats milk soap and can probable work out some way to share the making and supply of that too Scented washing power causes me major problems too. So I guess what I am saying is they need to be prepared to live a chemical free lifestyle. The house will be built chemical free so it would very suitable for another chemically sensitive person.

    So what do you think? I have possibly concentrated too much on the downside but we do I realise live very simply ands it maybe too much so to find anyone else. That’s why I thought we would try and find someone first then look more loosely at costs to build etc .It is going to be a long project but we have to start somewhere

    frosty
     
  2. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    Your first hurdle may be your local council in allowing multiple residences on the land.
    Check first
    Are you sewered?
     
  3. Hamishmac

    Hamishmac Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    I think you've put forwards a great sensible and progressive proposal, and should like to think that we shall see many other similar examples in future.

    You have a surplus (land that you can't optimally use) and some needs (carer time, help here and there) with some restrictions, both absolute (chemicals) and relative (economic power use).

    There are surely folk with a complementary balance of needs/surpluses.

    Need accommodation, land to grow stuff. Have an excess of time. Can live with the absolute restrictions, and negotiate the relative.

    Both parties reap large social & financial benefits. Govt also wins.

    If local bylaws restrict this, it is not the idea that is wrong, it is the laws.

    I read an article about 3 retired couples in USA who all downsized to live in the same large accommodation, while renting out their existing accommodation. The rental income (and tax breaks, it must be said)from the three properties completely funded the joint-living property and in addition there was a surplus which allowed hiring a full-time carer to be shared. Sure, there were compromises, but do-able and worked out well for everybody.

    Best of luck.

    Hamish
     
  4. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    Hi Michael

    the shire wont allow multiple residences but they will allow a "granny flat" if it is attached to the existing house :wink:

    we dont have sewerage - we have a Nature-loo and greywater system. Will be putting the same in the other "house"

    Hi Hamish

    excellent summary of what we are trying to do 8)

    frosty
     
  5. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    hi frosty an phil...How are you both.......

    Sounds like a great idea to me very good idea....

    have you thought of semi permament residences....Back packers,etc etc....Might be easyier for short termers in the early days,maybe even offer yourself up as woofer host or something simuler...

    that way u may get to choose better for your individual requirements....

    Not many back packers cart kids around im sure...

    I realise u prob looking for longer termers ,but u gotta start somewhere..

    Im/we. still looking at visiting in may on our way to exmouth and all points in beteween..We will be towing our pop up caravan ..

    Tezza
     
  6. thepoolroom

    thepoolroom Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    Utilising Willing Workers On Organic Farms (WWOOFers) springs to mind as a possibility, too.
     
  7. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    Hi Tezza

    sorry I havent replied been a bit busy trying to stop getting burnt out

    seriously wondering whether we should abandon this project and everyuthing we are trying to do here and sell up before this area gets a major fire

    it will be great to see you in May :D

    I guess we will still be here cause just dont know where else to go :(

    poolroom thanks for your reply

    frosty
     
  8. Noz

    Noz Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    It seems like a pretty good idea, but my experience & my mum's experience, is that boarders can sometimes be a great burden.
    If I were in your shoes, I would forget about trying to integrate your lives (except if it happens that you become good friends) and treat it as a completely separate residence, with requirements of the person in terms of living chemical free & sustainably.

    My mum tried living with a guy and his daughter (boarding temporarily) and tried to make it a condition of the rent that they do some cleaning etc - that didn't work out. Also, she was traumatised by their low quality diet & weight problems - she still talks about it months down the track. We were raised with a pretty healthy diet! particularly in comparison to these people. They're gone now, but it was hard for her for a while - particularly when she had to ask them to leave.

    I didn't realise how unwell you are, which could make a new person in your life & on your property too burdensome. But perhaps the financial assistance will make it worthwhile. But I feel fairly strongly that you should, at least initially, be cautious about bringing them into your home life.

    I hope you don't still want to leave your property?? I really encourage you to listen to Bill Mollison talking about fires, I found it quite encouraging & he seems to take everything pretty easy! Alcohol stores in your dog legged 'bomb shelter' dug into the hill and with a sturdy door... sounds like a good place to hang out while the fire rages:) Of course, your property can be severely damaged but with these kinds of precuations, you should be OK.

    Good luck:)
     
  9. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    hiya frosty and phil....how are you both?

    im on my way up to geraldton,and northampton and kalbarri next week..16 june onwards for 2 weeks,and can call in a and visit if you still want a bit of help...

    just up by myself this time,me an my big tent.....

    if you still interested give me a buzz by email........at..... [email protected] .

    I cant seem to find a better way of contacting you again....Dont they have PVT messaging in here anymore?

    Cant even clik on your name to send an email or a pvt message...whats going on in here????????????

    Tezza

    P.S Anyone else on my way up north looking for a bit of information exchanging, call me on the above mentioned email address pretty quick....

    First come first served basis....FREE PERMACULTURE HELP!!
     
  10. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    Hey Tezza,

    Murray disabled the PMs due to some unfortunate spam activity there. We're all hoping he can get a solution soon as we miss our private messages!

    Bill
     
  11. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    Thanks Bill...

    Hope muzza sorts it out real soon :(

    Tezza
     
  12. paradisi

    paradisi Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    been mentioned - woofers are the way to go though you won't get rent from them

    or forget about paying them and just ask for a low rent plus gardening assistance - - somewhere like grassroots might be a place to advertise - but vet every applicant carefully - - you don't want to end up with a family of junkies over running your peace and quiet

    check the real estate bad payers data base - costs about 25-30 to check someone out

    and then talk to an accountant - once someone starts paying rent you can claim their rental payments as income and mortgage/loan repayments as a cost - negative gearing the granny flat
     
  13. AustBodhi

    AustBodhi Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    Just to throw my two cents in...

    As an accountant/registered tax agent, the situation with regards rental income and deductions may not be quite as clear cut as previously mentioned. The rules for attributing income/apportioning expenses are rather complex and will depend on the OP's circumstances. You really need to chat to an accountant who knows your situation.

    Oh! And be careful with the income 'thing' as Centrelinks rules for determining income are MUCH BROADER than the ATO's. The net result is that you will need to consider how that income will be dealt with by Centrelink so it does/doesn't effect your pensions.

    Don't get me wrong though... this isn't a bad idea, just be a good idea to do your homework.

    Cheers
    Shane
     
  14. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    hey Tezza would love to have you visit I sent you an email early this morning with my phone number !

    Paradisi and Shane I am quite familiar with the ATO and Centrelink stuff as in another life long ago I used to be a HR Block lady :lol: :lol:

    At present things have stalled on this project as we dont want to borrow money in the present economic climate but we still intend to do it eventually

    We have a 40 foot bus that we may do some work on to upgrade it as acomodation for WWOOFers or maybe look at someone living there free for help

    Shane - AustBodhi I sent you a PM over at EG path in reply to your post in April :wink:

    frosty
     
  15. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    Thanks frosty will be answering your email soon as i finish this post..
    Cant wait to visit and finally meet you both..


    Tezza
     
  16. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    bumping this because we are thinking of getting the project underway
    but it would be good to know we can find the right sort of person first

    frosty
     
  17. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    Might be better for you to to expand your current dwelling. Probably pass council easier than a second building.
     
  18. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    Thank you, frosty, for showing that a relationship can possibly exist between people who have land and young people who have desires and energy.
    I feel it is important to find opportunities for the young to have a chance to produce the food we need. Good luck.
     
  19. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    Hi Eric

    tht is how we are going to present it to the shire - as an addition to the house. No separate habitable buildings are allowed anyway :(

    Thank purplepear :D all we need to do is find the right person/ people

    frosty
     
  20. Salkeela

    Salkeela Junior Member

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    Re: Sharing arrangement with our land

    I've just found this site which looks a great way of finding helpers.

    https://www.helpx.net

    We are hoping to have our first helpers stay with us in a couple of weeks. We've been chatting by emails and this couple (from Australia) will just stay a week as that is all the time they have now. However other visitors may stay longer. We're really looking forward to meeting a variety of new folk this way..... and perhaps gettting a few things done round the place at the same time. :)
     

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