Scalable Fusion Reactors

Discussion in 'News from around the damp planet' started by 9anda1f, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Lockheed-Martin's Skunkworks announces breakthrough work on scalable fusion reactors. This would dwarf the discovery of oil as an energy source, IMHO. They're talking about reactors small enough to fit on a semi-truck trailer!

    My question would be, "why are they announcing this?". L-M typically doesn't announce Skunkworks projects. What political motivations would provoke making such an announcement, especially now??

    https://www.e-catworld.com/2013/02/...shooting-for-100-mw-fusion-prototype-by-2017/
     
  2. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    an announcement inline with gov' policy, hush hush policy that is, nuclear is very likely to be the source long before wind, solar etc, little johnny how hard can he make it promised the presidency we would support the US nuclear industry by buying tech' etc.,. from them.

    the garden gnome said then, we should expect to have these things in our neighbourhood's in our back yards literally, so when he knelt and swore allegiance to the presidency what else did he swear away? remember he only needed a one vote majority to claim a mandate to introduce the GST, and their onto gilligan for lying, pot calling kettle black.

    nuclear is why they really wanted the travesty(traveston) dam and others down the GC coast way nothing to do with drinking water..

    len
     
  3. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Technical Questions:

    The byproduct is helium + "neutron".
    Where the hell does this free neutron go?
    What happens when the atmosphere gets its fill of helium(besides squeaky mouse voices)?


    Social Questions:

    Isn't cheap energy what got us in our current situation?
    Won't cheap energy just continue our population explosion, or would a shortage of oil and natural gas limit food and stave off further overpopulation?


    Statements:

    At least they're thinking about the end of oil.
    Too bad they're just continuing the current problems perplexing society.

    And in answer to the question about why are they doing this now:

    Funding and investors. This ain't gonna be cheap to create a working prototype. Or, , this is a ruse and they want to give people hope just before civilization takes a massive dump.
     
  4. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    A "free" neutron will decay into a proton in 10 - 15 minutes. Free protons can be combined with electrons (plus neutrons) to make hydrogen.

    Yup, cheap energy combined with some unethical/greedy thinking got us here. I don't have any reason to think that, under the current capitalist (read exploitative) paradigm, more cheap energy in the form of fusion will change anything except maybe slowing/ending the rape of the earth digging up fossil fuels.


    Agreed. Capitalists. They capitalize on a situation for their personal gain. Capitalize is to take advantage of, and I'm really tired of seeing the few take advantage of the many to line their pockets. Until the scourge of capitalism is gone and altruistic behavior is honored, I'm afraid it will just continue business-as-usual for the few.

    Lock-Mart is extensively funded by the government, not sure they need more investors with which they'll have to share the profits. If they're successful, this technology will be extremely lucrative.
    I did question whether this is a ruse of some sort. Could be to "give people hope" or just another way to pump up the company's stock price.
     
  5. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    The cornocopian growth economy doesn't just need cheap oil(energy) it needs to believe there is an alternative to maintain the charade.
    Without the potential for growth there is no inflation/ growth potential and therefore no lending or money printing or ability to pay it off.
    End of the house of cards comes quick as its only glued together with optimism of potential growth .

    Lots of Government bodies have predicted Peak Oil and its catastrophic effects in the next few years from the CSIRO,US Military, German Military and UK Military.
    Obviously main stream is oblivious, but long term investors private/public institutions would be factoring it in.
    This negativity is bad news for investment,tar sands and fracking is being sold as the game extender.
    When you look at the actual extraction rates and factor in the higher costs if it becomes the main source as compared to the 10%ish buffer it still isnt cheap oil,the dream would be it bought a few decades more until the next great invention.
    And Chinese and Indians still keep building roads and buying cars faster and faster than ever before, tacking up the potential slack.
    Mans been burning fossils in cast iron boxes for the last 200ish years and hasnt come up with a cheaper/efficent alternative, so Im not too optimistic.
     
  6. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Lockheed Martin Skunkworks works near JPL & NASA. NASA announced an ION-Drive engine, I guess for stock reasons Lockheed did not want to be out done?

    BTW, where is my flying car a la the Jetsons already?
     
  7. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    unmutual you asked/suggested:
    "Isn't cheap energy what got us in our current situation?
    Won't cheap energy just continue our population explosion, or would a shortage of oil and natural gas limit food and stave off further overpopulation?"

    cheap energy as you say has provided employment and allowed taxes to be collected, and what really is our current situation? you can't look out your window, drive down the road(you don't push a barrow everywhere you go i guess, you enjoy the privileges of affordable services).

    then you say cheap enrgey caused a population explosion are you talking about the population explosion of the poor third world countries, where there are no jobs they live in humpies and tents with no power, toilet and little food? if so you are dramatising, as the price we here in australia has no bearing on our population, and like i am saying to grahame, the 7billion are already here, how can you population explosion be curbed by now making power, fuel, food, water and medical help to expensive for aussies at least, what do you want genocide or something, who is going to be charged with deciding who dies and who lives? you maybe, will you and others here be seen as the new belief acceptable's.

    provide answers instead of accusations, give us your alternative now, you can't but hey? the alternatives are in someone's dreams. stave ff further population explosion you say, can you do that in an inhumane way? meantime aussies pay because others don't support humanitarian need, some say there is no such thing as basic requirements for life to exist in the cities, get real hey when human's are properly looked after then follow the pipe dreams if you can. look at all the money wasted on propping up the theories.

    maybe you could explain how your parents, grandparents are entitled to the right to life when you say my kids parents, don't merit the same?

    len
     
  8. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    There is no simple answer
    The pipe dream is do nothing and it will be alright.
    The reality is supply and demand will eventually make cheap oil, perpetual growth ,economic fantasy fail and it will take everything with it.
    The only solution is to prepare for the decent, not fight change and ignore the facts, because of any short term pain it may cause.
     
  9. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    For those who are interested here is some interesting and compelling reading on the subject of energy decent. I know its been posted before but it's worth posting again. Happy reading

    https://www.futurescenarios.org
     
  10. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    grasshopper you again have only provided questions and supposition, no fact and no fix, just prepare, prepare for what exactly the sun rising in the west maybe? what? your premise does not include fixes does it?

    len
     
  11. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_overpopulation

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil but more importantly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil#Agricultural_effects_and_population_limits

    Just in case the chart isn't on either of those pages: https://www.rewilding.org/images/popgraphsm.jpg (I didn't actually read what was said on the rewilding page, I was just looking for that specific chart).

    If you have further questions after reading that, then feel free to ask. If you choose to believe that all of this is a lie, then so be it.

    As far as the rest of your comments, it seems that you took everything personally. We're all in this boat together. And no, anyone born in the future will not have the same benefits that we squandered wastefully. Some people think that we may even lament quite a few things in the very near future, like people who bought diesel trucks when gas prices went up. You might be the first person to accuse me of wanting mass murder though. And yes, you can humanely curb population growth and even send it in to a decline. It's simple and freely handed out in many countries. We call them condoms. There are, of course, other methods of birth control, but condoms also have the added bonus of slowing the spread of some diseases. Education on how and why to use birth control is also important.

    As far as what can be done about this mess: Western governments are ineffectual at countering such things at best, mostly because they are out of touch and would rather pander to corporate wants. 3rd world countries are doing a better job of it by repairing damaged ecosystems and teaching their citizens how to grow food and get clean water. I think Africa should be a showcase for the rest of the world on how to do this, and I wholeheartedly salute them in their accomplishments. You couldn't get six states to agree to fix natural ecosystems, and they're in the same damn country.

    Though it may take several days to watch them all, I strongly suggest the What If We Change series of youtube videos.
     
  12. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    The answer is in
    Matthew 7:26

    "And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand"

    The whole foolish economic fantasy that you(and the rest of the BAU crowd) want to not change is built on sand. (cheap finite resources and cheap polluting)

    What would you do?
    rebuild on firm foundation (renewables)
    or
    keep patching and praying ?
     
  13. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    lol lol gotta lol GH yes i would say matthew can be applied to the foolish economy, that we the poor didn't build other 1/2 wise fools did that, then they worship the builders of that structure on sand, so yes strange hey how non believers use scriptures and gospel words, it's your roots, now all we need do is follow the commandments keep the laws and all crime and violence will end, all corruption will go when politics is gone.

    read all of matthew is is and easy read, from there you will get how you should be as a parent etc.,. by matthew saying how we shouldn't be, so yes don't build on sand which hey funnily many wealthy do, then when their homes get washed away w all pay higher premiums to cover the insurance company loss. the bible also says we must love one another know our enemy and love them also, for those who live by the sword surely die by the sword.

    now where in the bible did you find any support for the obvious inhumanity here.

    now quoting matthew is not an answer for you so where is your missing answer? and does it contain human compassion, or is grahame going to now say not only can't we afford to look after the health of our people, but we can't afford humanity either.

    len
     
  14. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    lol
    Thought the Biblical reference may hold more weight than facts.

    Im not patching or praying Len
    Im ready for the rebuild
     
  15. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Ezekiel is my favourite greenie from the KJV:

    Source: Ezekiel 34:18
     
  16. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    yes following the word and faith is far better than what ever is likely to be on offer, at least humans will be treated with compassion.

    dunno mark you'll need to explain ezekiel, maybe post the whole chapter then teh meaning maybe revealed?

    so ok GH what is it we are going to rebuild with, and is it humane?

    len
     
  17. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    Its all about the foundations Len

    and yes it will be more humane than doing nothing
     
  18. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Oh, I'm sorry Len. I thought you were a biblical (KJV) scholar. Here's the Good News Translation (GNT):

    Ezekiel was a member of the Jewish upper class who lived around 2,500-years BP. Apparently, according to the good book, he had numerous 'visions'. Enough so it is written, that he was considered (at least among his peers) as a bit of a prophet - albeit of the yuppie variety. Anyway, Ezekiel was in the habit of preaching good animal and land husbandry to the sheep farmers of the day, and the above verse comes from one of these sermons. I'll not bore you with the whole detail. I just like it, because in the broader context it reminds me of Hardin's (1968) The Tragedy of the Commons, one of my all time favourite resource depletion allegories, and as such it is very pertinent to this discussion.
     
  19. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    no scholar mark, don't need to be, the GNT presentation not sure of, good news comes from apostasy, looked at KJV seems good animal husbandry advice to a farmer.

    we can see here in australia, farmers who have no idea and over graze, western qld now in drought 3 years after flood be due to greed and over grazing and common in aus' grazing marginal ground. up here there is so much good beef because for after a decade there is lots of grass so herds have been increased with no thought of maybe a returning dry spell, lots of 'B' doubles filled with prime beef going to market, beef should be very cheap right now, but watch it when a drought hits and farmers end up with dust bowls and mud holes as they allow animals direct access to dams etc.,.

    i see bad grazing management worse than coal fired power, in good times the land gets punished, then in a bad time grazier's want hand outs.

    len
     
  20. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Did you mean GNT translation as opposed to 'presentation'?

    The GNT is an 'apostasy', you say. Surely then, according to this methodology, the KJV is merely an apostasy of even earlier versions?

    What about The Tragedy of the Commons, did you have a chance to read it? If so, would you care to share your thoughts about it in relation to the topic of the thread?
     

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