safe/unsafe glyphosate use

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by Luke B, Dec 12, 2004.

  1. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    and another Ops also a carcinogen

    note this one is widely used in Australia and here we are not pohasing out OPs

     
  2. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    and nowstudies have now begun to hone in on the mechanism by which the chemical acts on cell division to cause cancer

     
  3. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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  4. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    Christopher wrote:

    I laughed when I read this. Although I think this is a very valuable forum - the only one I read or post to - I rally don't think that the big chemical cpmpanies are going to pay somebody to 'misinform' within this forum :lol:

    I suspect that would not be overly concerned about this forum having an impact on their sales. Although we all like to think that we can change the world - I think most of us proceed on the basis that it starts in your own backyard.

    I have not contributed to this debate - as I lack the facts to do so in a valuable manner. I will however admit - and this can be identified from threads tht ended well before Christopher or Jeff joined this forum - that I have used glyphosphate as a means of getting my property to where I want it, to implement my permie practices. I took the pragmatic approach, but was sure not to end up dependant on this product.

    Having read parts of this thread - I find it a bit tiresome, so have not read it all - I admit that I have changed some of my views on glyphosphate. While I am not convinced that it is as bad as some express here - I cannot be sure of this and accordingly am not willing to expose myself, my family or my soil to it anymore. A couple of areas that I have yet to deal with on my land will now be copping solarisation with black plastic before I put down my mulch. In the past I would have given the area a whack of glyphosphate.

    Of course plastic is toxic and the process to produce it is not sound, it is not biodegradeable (though I will not be leaving it down of course) etc., but this is my best option. I used to sheet mulch using newspaper - before I resorted to a bit of glyphosphate use - but the termites had a field day with this and I am not willing to risk the house that my family lives in.
     
  5. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    VB,

    I keep telling myself, don't go back to that thread, stay away.... and I keep getting sucked back in.

    :oops: Um, okay, perhaps I AM paranoid..... :lol: , um, so we can whittle the list down to one of the other options, then.

    But Monsanto and many other companies do have a long track recod of paying people to change perception. Market practices include paying people to write letters to the paper saying that their products are "safe", good, better than brand X, etc.

    I read a book at university about marketing, and "branidng", getting people to identify with a product (scarily easy to do...). It wasn't for a class, so I can't remember the name, but it was all about manipulation for marketing... how a certain cigarete came in green packs in the 1930s because green as a dress color was fashionable, about paying people to go to bars and ask for and buy a new brand, etc, etc, etc. The maniuplations were really sneaky, and I realized that I had been manipulated subtly for most of my life! I have been leery of marketing ever since, and perhaps seeing it where it isn't.

    So when I see someone who comes here, a permaculture forum, and a high percentage of his posts saay that Round Up is safe (never aknowledging the growing catalogue of info that Frosty has provided which says otherwie), who isn't interested in permaculture, who can't tell us why he's here.... I get, um, paranoid.

    Monsanto was summonsed and fined in New York State court for saying Round Up was safe. They still say it is safe, and they hire people to say it. When the largest proponent of Round Up here says Round Up is safe, and originally quoted the Monsanto line that Round Up controls erosion, therefore Round Up is good, I get, um, paranoid.

    And I have said several times here that althoug I would never buy or use any product made by Monsanto, ever, period, (etc), I can see a place for it in agriculture, and especially that such use may be extremely valuable for pioneering a new area.

    This guy named.... uh... Paul Somethingorother (Sprecher?), in Australia, has an amazing agroforestry system, and his species index is very impressive. He used Round Up in the beginning, and that is fine as the end result is definitely worth the limited and controlled use of a chemical that still scares me.

    I am not a purist, I just don't like half truths and unanswered questions....

    C
     
  6. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    talking about marketing and perceptions this is part of an artcile about MCS but shows how the drug companies are also making pesticides

     
  7. grease

    grease Junior Member

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    The only way to decide this dispute that I can see is pistols at ten paces! Winner take all.
     
  8. Guest

  9. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    This is why I get paranoid. They are so manipulative, and thge line between pharmaceuticals and pesticides is so blurred that many pharmacetical companies make pesticides now.

    Anyway, Frosty, thanks for sharing that!

    C
     
  10. Cornonthecob

    Cornonthecob Junior Member

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    Rainbow...I can't believe how long I sat here watching those two little guys. The ending was spot on!

    :)
     

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