Renewable Energy: Not Where We're Headed

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by 9anda1f, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Eye-opening article. In spite of the hype, we're barreling (no pun intended!) down the path to a third carbon era.

    https://grist.org/climate-energy/do...-were-heading-for-an-era-of-renewable-energy/
     
  2. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    If demand for it is there they will extract it. Methods of extraction are continuously being refined to make them cheaper and ensure viability.

    The continuing paradigm of endless growth is driven by energy which is driven by consumption. China and India and other rapidly developing countries will continue to increase their energy use and developed countries show no signs of scaling back consumption patterns. Same old, same old.
     
  3. annette

    annette Junior Member

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  4. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    "America: Exporting Our Way to Energy Independence?"

    https://www.resilience.org/stories/2013-08-11/america-exporting-our-way-to-energy-independence
     
  5. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    Before your also hypothetical LM or SE could even look like working australian's would have to stand as one, or you will have 22 million individuals doing their own thing which will lead to anarchy

    so if what you propose has merit let's not put the cart before the horse this time as science is currently doing.

    the current results of self control are very well covered by the lawlessness in our major cities at least. people need to have good moral ethics

    len
     
  6. Yukkuri_Kame

    Yukkuri_Kame Junior Member

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    Diving into LM or SE too much for me tonight.

    The renewable energy revolution is both inevitable and immanent. It does not matter that the energy companies, nor politicians, nor 'news' media or general population are clueless to this fact. It is upon us.

    Simply put, on a utility scale, wind is already cheaper than oil, gas, coal or nuclear. Solar is cheaper in a number of scenarios, but not others. Renewable energy technology gets cheaper every year, while resource extraction gets more expensive every year. Can the dinosaur energy co's deliver 20% cheaper energy every year for the foreseeable future? All they can do is spend more and more to get less and less. Sure, there will bumps to upside in the production curves, but also to the downside.

    The last big barrier is battery technology for transportation. The technology is progressing nicely there new breakthroughs announced weekly. On our current trajectory, in 5-10 years most cars being sold will be fully electric, though I'm really hoping utilitarian electric bicycles take off in a bigger way, in conjunction with better public transportation options.

    Hermann Scheer, the father of the german renewable energy revolution said essentially this (paraphrased): 'my advice to energy companies is do not make large investments in conventional power because they will become stranded investments.'

    This video is both outdated, but still perfectly prophetic in the big picture:

    [video=youtube;nr-grdspEWQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr-grdspEWQ[/video]
     
  7. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    Heres some good news...lol

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/13/solar-panels-far-right
     
  8. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    'green tea party' ... haha, thanks for the laugh, GH.

    I've never been able to find a 100% reliable source (perhaps it's hidden amongst his personal papers in some library vault, somewhere), nevertheless, Thomas Edison is alleged to have said (in a letter, I think it was) in 1931 (also the year he died) to Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone:

    I’d put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don’t have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that.
     
  9. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    "The Social Implications of Energy Return"

    https://www.resilience.org/stories/2013-08-11/the-social-implications-of-energy-return

    and related:

    https://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy-Voices/2013/0813/IEA-After-years-of-decline-US-oil-demand-back-on-the-rise
     
  10. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Re-focussing the thread

    This thread went well off course so I have removed a large number of posts to a new thread - General Discussion on.... Hopefully, it will not leave the thread too disconnected. There will be a few posts that seem to contain unrelated responses but I don't think it will distract from the basic flavour of the thread.

    Apologies for any inconvenience.
     
  11. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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  12. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks Grahame!

    "Energy Independence in the Age of Natural Gas Exports"

    If we're going to be "energy independent", why are we exporting petroleum products while still importing them too??

    https://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy-Voices/2013/0813/Energy-independence-in-the-age-of-natural-gas-exports
     
  13. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    I believe the Super-Conciousness of man is heading towards renewables, but I think asshats like the Koch Brothers, and other men of the 1% are trying to do everything they can to spin it their way. After all, they didn't invest in those things yet because they don't want to. Keep in mind as well, Brazil is totally energy independent.

    I cite Germany as my example of humanity moving towards renewables.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/26/us-climate-germany-solar-idUSBRE84P0FI20120526
    That's in 2 days!!!!

    If the 1% can't control it, they put it down, or make someone afraid of it. It's the game behind the game behind the game.
     
  14. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    sounds great hey paka?

    ... the power mentioned is not produced on demand, nor did you complete the picture by saying german's pay around .36 cents per unit. Here in Aus' that would mean, at a guess, around 2 mill people who would not be able to afford power, many can't now.

    Can you tell us how much more expensive, health and dental for a couple are? Over here health and dental all but collapsed for those who rely on public care.

    tell us eh full big picture please. not just the sweet bits.

    len
     
  15. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    in your link through paka,

    it states that german's pay some 5 billion dollars over and above their power bills to support solar.

    len
     
  16. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    Some good news

    https://www.theguardian.com/environ...g/14/china-investment-energy-saving-pollution
    Lets hope that puts a few Australian coal mines out of business.
     
  17. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    The Peak Oil story is simple (finite resource) but the ramifications of oil limits are quite complex. "Gail the Actuary" is one of the premier contributors to The Oil Drum and with the archive of the site, Gail has started up her own web page to continue the dialog.

    Stumbling Blocks to Figuring Out the Real Oil Limits Story

    https://ourfiniteworld.com/2013/08/13/stumbling-blocks-to-figuring-out-the-real-oil-limits-story/
     
  18. Donkey32

    Donkey32 Junior Member

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    The FULL picture... The age of cheap oil (and thus, cheap energy) is over, the global peak oil moment has come and gone again. Petroleum-based energy sources WILL continue to get more expensive and getting at the rest will prove ever more damaging to the environment.
    Alternatives need to be invested in, period. These alternatives WILL (of course) be more expensive in the short run, becoming more economically do-able as technologies improve and the bugs get worked out.
    This transition WILL be painful but NOT making the transition early enough will be FAR worse.
     
  19. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    hey donkey,

    what you say is only true in the manipulations of corporate and gov' greed, each time this peak oil i see it fallacy comes up the oil co's gouge us at the pump, simple deduction if someone sells something that is pulled up out of the ground only they know the true extent, and why would they not support someone who doesn't know saying their product is worth more? after all they are there to support a lifestyle they have become accustomed to, tho e greedy oil co's need huge profits for just as greedy blinded by the need for wealth investors, and CEO's who think they are worth millions if not billions a year, so the poor pay for all that.

    all what you say is going to do is to keep more and more aussies downtrodden and poor, so what do you gain? if oil and coal really are expensive why is their not an affordable alternative, high costs of fuel and power cuts across our whole society food gets expensive, people now can't afford power, they can't afford rent, no maker makes an affordable family car, yet the gov' takes from public health to prop up teh automotive industry, like betting on a lame horse in a race full of healthy horses hey, what a waste. worst part is the industry will still crash, too many imports, too many models.

    so where is the alternative to all you say donkey? germans pay around .36 cents per unit for solar power and on top of that subsidise the industry to around $5 billion per year. do german's look after their people? do people who can't afford much get good medical and dental on the public system(we don't), can all german's afford power, rent, food?

    getting too late to work out bugs, we need something up and fully functional right now, what you say has been manipulated for around a decade now, with no other affordable options on the table, what you have pointed to has been bandied around for all that time, yet dubai expands it towers of babal, if what you say very very few people will ever be able to enjoy their brand of tourism, all tourism will collapse, jobs will disappear as they are now. food will be for teh rich and greedy as will security of their safety, teh poor you and me will suffer. teh transition is already too late.

    yes like mark and grahame say we need to get our community/ies back into high moral and ethical ethics. you can't hand power unto themselves to people who aren't responsible for their won actions and are wonton of what others have.

    anyhow come outside the indoctrinated box take a good wide look.

    len
     
  20. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    It will be ugly for people who believe they have a right to guilt free "cheap" power.
     

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