PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

Discussion in 'News from around the damp planet' started by ecodharmamark, Oct 30, 2009.

  1. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day All

    A couple of days ago our fearless leader, PM Rudd, had a little chat with the BCA (Business Council of Australia). In essence, he set out his (tentative) plan for the urban (and in doing so, rightly pointed out and included a connection to the non-urban) places of Australia.

    His speech is long on rhetoric, and short on substance - he is a politician, after all. But what he did hint at is:

    The goal is that our cities have strong, transparent and long-term plans for growth and high-quality urban development.

    That our cities are productive, liveable and sustainable.

    Specifically, the new criteria for the strategic planning systems in our major cities should focus on:

    - Providing for planned, sequenced and evidence-based land release that meets the housing needs of a growing population and keeps homes affordable.

    - Balancing in-fill and greenfield development.

    - Implementing credible plans to reduce greenhouse gas emissions - through initiatives such as energy efficiency measures, changes to town planning, practical improvements in public transport infrastructure and reform of building codes and regulations.

    - Adapting to the risks of climate change such as coastal inundation and more extreme weather events.

    - Emphasising world-class design and associated architectural integrity.

    - Providing for building and upgrading nationally significant infrastructure, such as transport corridors, intermodal connections and communications and utilities networks.

    - Providing for governments to take into account independent, expert advice on the objectives and implementation of their planning system.

    - Providing an effective framework for private sector investment and innovation in the urban infrastructure given that with the fiscal constraints on governments, the nation will need to harness private capital.


    (Source: https://www.pm.gov.au/node/6282)

    So, you might be wondering, what has all this got to do with us, the permaculture community? I believe that we might just have a chance in the near future to address all of PM Rudd's concerns by providing him with the perfect planning tool - permaculture! Could be that this might be another way of breaking into the mainstream mindset? Anyway, watch this space...

    Cheerio, Marko.
     
  2. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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  3. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

    As someone else once said here - Mandala town!
     
  4. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

    G'day Eco

    That would be Grahame, our resident Mandala Town extraordinaire.

    Yes, you and I (Grahame, and just about every other permie) knows it, but what about the other 99% of the population?

    Perhaps we should take our call for Mandala Town Planning to the seat of government, right up to the steps of parliament house (I doubt whether they'd let us in the public gallery), in the big Mandala Town (good plan, poor implementation) of Canberra?

    Maybe we could stage a Mandala Town around Australia tour, just like the Freedom Rides of the 60/70s, except we could do in a solar-powered bus? We create a (squarish) circle bed (complete with chook dome) and tow it behind in a trailer?

    Just a couple of thoughts... I think exam prep is driving me mad (or maybe I always was to begin with?).

    Cheerio, Marko (the slightly mad one).
     
  5. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

    Hmmm, ...why do i get the feeling of an analogy being made by ecodharmamark of permaculture being hitched to the Algorian global warming political scam bus.....
     
  6. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

    G'day Flying Binghi

    Starting to show your true colours, madam/sir? It appears that you are now going to follow (or is that 'troll' for) me from one thread to another?

    I would be happy to debate anthropogenic climate change (or any other serious concern) with you anytime, anywhere. More importantly, I would be very interested to learn what you believe we can do about mitigating the effects that human-induced climate change will bring to people of the world who can least afford to adapt?

    Of course there is always this option (if only it was this easy in the real world to rid oneself of naysayers...): Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible.

    Cheerio, Marko.
     
  7. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

    My "true colours" eh...

    ...and this in a political thread eh, ecodharmamark...Hmmm.






    .
     
  8. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

    Dear 'Flying Binghi', 'Flaming Troll', Sir/Madam

    After having taken your earlier advice and Googling your 'handle', I was not surprised (but nevertheless, saddened) to learn that you regularly 'troll' many forums and 'flame'. Please know that I wish you all the best in your life. I truly hope that you can find whatever it is that you are looking for, and that peace will eventually descend upon your being.

    With sincere compassion, Mark.
     
  9. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia


    I see.

    Ecodharmarmark, you seem determined to insult me. A sign perhaps of your week position ?


    Ecodharmamark, heres your first attack on me -

    Via - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13222

    Ecodharmamark, I note prior to that, ah made no previous comment towards you...unless, you are posting under a different call sign...Hmmmm

    The way i post on other forums tends to reflect the way it is done at those forums, or on particular threads. I will accept though that my postings can be a bit ruff as i was booted out in grade eight so never got the refinement some have.

    ...anyway, seems ah got the political slant of this thread fair and square... :p






    .
     
  10. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

    Flying Binghi, Sir/Madam

    Against my better judgement, but in the interest of friendly discourse, I will give this one last go. However from the outset I wish to make it perfectly clear that I am not going to enter into a 'she said, he said' situation with you. A record of what has been written by both parties is freely available and plain for all to see.

    I do sincerely apologise for any hurt or suffering that I may have caused you in the process of responding to the claims that you have made. I too realise that my demeanor via this medium can sometimes be quite abrupt, but unlike you by your own admission, I offer no excuse. I will try harder in the future to temper my passion by keeping 'my eye on the ball and not the player'. This is not to say though that surely you must understand and accept that the claims you have been making cannot pass without at least some scrutiny?

    In closing, you have offered nothing in response to my repeated calls for evidence to support your claims, and this is despite my own comprehensive efforts in refuting the same. From my perspective it appears that all you have been able to produce is obfuscation. Therefore I now ask you to respond to any of the counter arguments that I have put forward to your claims, or in the very least offer some positive thoughts into solving any one of the dire socio-ecological situations facing Earth today. Do this, and we can continue to have a conversation.

    Sincerely, Mark.
     
  11. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

    Hmmm, what can ah say to all that... :mrgreen:

    "...evidence to support your claims..." ... what i've been asking of AlGorians for some time now - yet to see any.

    ....anyway, i'll go to the other thread where the ecodharmamark attacks first started.





    .
     
  12. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

    Flying Binghi
    Your posts don't seem to be helpful, productive or friendly.
    They do seem argumentative and off topic.
    Please address the question/topic.
     
  13. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

    One of the bigger problems with our governmental system is the removal of personal responsibility from the equation. If the system was less restrictive and less giving, not only would we HAVE to take responsibility for our own actions we would also have the freedom to do it.

    The "free" democratic system actually takes more freedom away than it gives. For every person who achieves freedom another is put out because of it. Permaculture enables the ability for "Me" to take personal responsibility for myself and my own little piece of the planet.
     
  14. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

    Michaelangelica, do tell me where i've lacked a true understanding of the thread and been off topic ?
     
  15. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

    G'day Eric

    I mostly agree with what you are saying, Eric, however I believe in a communal approach to libertarianism, rather than the individual because unfortunately our "own little piece of the planet" (and all the little pieces of every other individual being on Earth) is subject to the very same polluting and denuding actions of others. The soil with which we grow our food, the water in our creeks, the air we breathe, the climate that sustains us and all other life on Earth, all these entities are subject to interference by others. Sometimes those 'others' are individuals - like your landlord/neighbour, he with the MCPA spraypack. Sometimes those 'others' are multinational corporations, ah la big burgers, big oil, big coal, etc. Of course there is a solution to the socio-ecological problems created by those individuals who directly effect our "own little piece of the planet" - we simply ask them to stop, and if that fails, we either take 'action' (in whatever form we believe best suits the situation - for me it will always be non-violent) to make them stop, or we do nothing (and maybe hope that someone else will do it for us). And if the socio-ecological problems we face are indirectly caused by faceless entities (corporations), what then? How do we go about halting the globe-wide ecological destruction caused by corporations? Well, some (most of humanity seem to think that the government, any government (otherwise known as the State), will do it. In reality, and as it is so patently apparent, the State is very ineffectual when it comes to halting the ecological (and therefore, sociological) destruction perpetuated by the corporations, because the State is but a minion of the corporations. The State is reliant upon the filthy money that corporations reap from their exploitative practices of raping the land and underpaying their workers. So, that leaves only one other body capable of forcing the corporations to halt their destructive practices. What is this body I hear you ask? It's us. Not 'you', not 'I', not 'them', but us. Us equals community. True community is local people getting together (via assemblies with other local people, and through the application of knowledge and wisdom (often implemented via the means of 'direct action') making things happen. At first, just at the local level. Then, when enough local groups get together, things can happen at the bio-regional level. And then when enough regional bodies get together, things can happen (and I mean really happen) at the meta-regional level. Just imagine then, if enough groups of local, bio-regional and finally meta-regional (continental) groups of concerned individuals got together, then perhaps we could have real change on things like anthropocentric climate change, rather than the mere tinkering at the edges of the problem that is currently offered by groups such as the UN, etc.

    Some links on the above topic of discussion:

    Libertarian Municipalism
    https://www.inclusivedemocracy.org/dn/vo ... tarian.htm
    https://www.eutopia.gr/en/default.htm
    https://www.communalism.net/
    https://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Ar ... bmuni.html

    Cheerio, Mark.
     
  16. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia


    I'm not too sure why he would bother Binghi.
     
  17. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

    Good post Mark,

    How do we prevent others being put out by a communal approach to libertarianism.

    Again, with my example... It is a communal opinion that the results achieved by the application of MCPA far out-weighs any negative effects it may have on personal health or the environment.

    Those who care more about their families health and the environment, like myself, are put out and/or pushed aside for the sake of the communal approach to libertarianism....

    ....freedom can only exist if someone elses freedom is taken away with our "free" democratic system.

    If one does not fit in the majority group... look out.
     
  18. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

    Anyway, back to the thread subject PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

    After the Prime Minister's recent deluded rant i very much doubt ah would trust any of Rudd's "political prejudice" and personal advancement agenda for higher office "vision" .....Vision, more like delusion...

    For example, via Rudd - "...The argument that we must not act until others do is an argument that has been used by political cowards since time immemorial both of the left and the right. They are reckless gamblers who are betting all our futures on their arrogant assumption that their intuitions should triumph over the evidence.
    “You are betting our jobs, our houses, our farms, our reefs, our economy and our future on an intuition on a gut feeling; on a political prejudice you have about science.”..."


    Zero evidence be the problem with accepting Al Gores global warming scam. There's no "until others" suggestions from AGW sceptics - more a, we will not destroy the economy because of your delusions of grandeur, line.

    Quote via - https://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andr ... _100_years
     
  19. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: PM Rudd's vision for the cities of Australia

    G'day Eric

    And a very good question from yourself, Eric, and one that is answered emphatically in any of the links that I have previously provided. However, for those that are a little reluctant (for whatever reason) to read from those same said links, I will give you my understanding of the situation. I think you are confusing 'informed communal consent' with that of 'ignorant mob rule' - two very different organisational and community decision-making structures indeed. I do not for moment believe that it was a truly informed community that made the decision to nuke your creek. By informed, I mean educated as to the alternatives available to the application of MCPA near a waterway - remembering my reference to the warning on the 10 sample labels that I selected from a possible 200-plus. If the members of your community have ignorantly given their consent which in turn allowed for your neighbour to nuke your creek, then I say that is merely just another examples individuals abrogating their obligation to the greater good of the community, and considering that they too are sum parts of that community, then they have not only abrogated their obligations to the community, they have abrogated an obligation to themselves. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that it - the decision making process of an egalitarian community - all comes back to being well-informed, or educated. Libertarian municipalism holds at its very core the basic tenant of education - the ability for one to gather with other members of one's community and together gain the broadest possible understanding (through dialectical discourse) of any issue as it affects the community as a whole, and therefore too affects the individuals that make up that community. This is what I, together with the adherents of libertarian municipalism believe, is in essence an answer to your question: We do not live in an egalitarian society, one where all have an opportunity to make informed decisions. We live in a so-called democratic state; a society where we abrogate both obligations to ourselves, and to the wider community in which we live, and we do this each time we 'vote' at the ballot box. We give away our right to making an informed decision, just like your community gave away their right to making an informed decision with regards to nuking your creek.

    Apart from any of the material that I have previously linked to, I would like to suggest the following as an excellent entry point to the politics of social ecology:

    Book Review
    The Politics of Social Ecology: Libertarian Municipalism by Janet Biehl
    Reviewed by: Patrick Borden


    https://library.nothingness.org/articles ... isplay/258

    Cheerio, Marko.
     

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