Plants that grow in water

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by frosty, Dec 3, 2007.

  1. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    we are putting in another big liner pond/dam as water storage and I was wondering if it is worth putting a shelf arround the edge to grow plants in pots sitting in the water

    the idea is to help clean the water but to be worth while they need to be edible plants (either by us or as goat food), they also need to be able to grow in full sun

    we are in WA 120km north of Perth and a fair bit hotter than Perth ( we have temp up to 45C )

    any ideas appreciated please

    frosty
     
  2. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    frosty,

    ther is a variety of native water plants reeds, rushes, lillies etc.,.?

    you could also grow water chestnuts as a food plant.

    len
     
  3. jeff

    jeff Junior Member

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    Hi Frosty, you need to be able to move your plants with the water fluctuation.
    You can't move a shelf
    Plants can be used to great success in cleaning water
    What can be grown really depends on the nutrients available in the water.
    It doesn't sound like you would want to add nutrients to an outdoor water storage as it will go green.
     
  4. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    Lebanese watercress (I believe Joel has some which was sold as Yugoslavian watercress so it may be widely known as that in WA) would be a goer Frosty, it does well in water in a floating pot or on a shallow shelf. Tastes a bit like celery and is a great plant IMO.

    You might also consider growing rice in a fenced off shallow area - check out The Power of Duck: Integrated Rice and Duck Farm by Takao Furuno...it's a great system.

    Other than those and water chestnuts as Len suggested, I'm drawing a blank and only thinking of tropical things (as I tend to do these days :lol:)
     
  5. Duckpond

    Duckpond Junior Member

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    You could try Taro. Its from hawaii so it should take the heat
     
  6. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    thanks everyone :D

    Len I really have no idea what water chestnuts are :? will have to do some research

    also how do I find out what reeds and rushes will grow here there are no wet lands arround here ...........

    jeff the main reason for growing the plants is to stop the pond going green !

    you make a good point about needing to be able to move the plants but I am not sure how to achieve that as the pond is to be 2m deep - any ideas ?

    jez we have some of that watercress Joel gave us some when we visited him back in 2005 ( how time flies ! ) BUT it doesnt like out strong sun ........ it nearly died in the existing pond and we had to move it into a little pond on the back verandah ........ then the ducks ate it to nearly nothing but it is slowly recovering ........

    I had wondered about rice will do an online search for more info ....... thanks

    duckpond is it you that has ducks and aquaponics ? we have 2 ducks in our existing pond the fertilise the water that we pump out on our gardens ! but we feel we cant add fish to the duckpond because they will eat them

    I had wondered about that veltiver (sp?) grass stuff :? does anyone know much about it ? eg will it grow in the heat and is it edible by goats

    frosty
     
  7. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day frosty,

    water chestnuts fairly common maybe not so easy to get from normal nurseries but from nurseries who specialise in water plants yes.

    same with your water lillies and lotus lillies and reeds and rushes all native species can be googled and all or most can be procurred from specialist pond nurseries or some of the bigger garden centres.

    most of the above plants will do well between low and high water periods, the chestnuts will like water over the medium so moveable pots maybe like those plastic grab trays similar to what bakers use except deeper.

    not sure if all these are water plants but here goes:

    Black bristle rush – ‘Chorizandra enodis’
    'Cyperus lucidus' - sedge
    'Cyperus rutilans' - sedge
    'Cyperus sanguinolentus' - sedge
    Frogsmouth – ‘Phylidrum lanuginosum’
    ‘Myriophyllum verrucosum’ – water plant
    'Nymphoides indica' - Water Lilly
    Rushes – ‘Eleocharis nuda’
    Saw sedge – ‘Gahnia sieberana’
    Sword Rush – ‘Lepidosperma gladiatum’
    Tufted water herb – ‘Schoenoplectus mucronatus’
    Water lily - 'Nymphaea gigantea'

    might give you a start? some sedges aren't water plants or may not be but research should show up what you want?

    len
     
  8. Duckpond

    Duckpond Junior Member

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    Yes i am the one with the duckpond aquaponics. Is is feasable for you to install a small AP system to pump your pond water through? It would eliminate the water level problem? Just a thought
     
  9. Ev

    Ev Junior Member

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  10. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    I doubt it would have been the sun by itself which killed off the watercress Frosty, it grows quite happily up here in full sun with temps as high or higher than you get - though you do have to keep it well watered and mulched if it's in soil (I'm growing a mat of it under the clothes line where it seldom gets any shade at all because we only wash clothes once a week and they're usually dry in 1/2 hour :lol:). I'd suggest it may well have been a water quality issue or something else not directly related to the sun - though it may well have been the sun which finished it off.

    I'm 99.9% sure vetiver is fine fodder for goats but I have no direct personal experience on that, I've just read it lots of times.

    The Takao Furuno book I mentioned should be available through the library, and while you're at it, if you can get hold of Josh Byrne's Permaculture vid he uses native WA water species in his wetland area - offhand I don't recall any of them being edible though.
     
  11. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Thanks len I'll look them up :D

    duckpond we have considered an AP system but at present the amount of power to pump using a bigish pump is a bit of an issue ......... but once we dont have to waste mega amounts of pwoer pumping up from the bore we will look at it again

    although one BIG problem we have with the existing pond is that we introduced mosquito fish ! back in 2005 we got about half a dozen from the Moore river now there are thousands :shock: :shock: mabye even millions ......... seems there is no easy way to irradicate them

    ideally we would like to overflow the old pond intot he new one but we wont unless we can get rid of the mozzie fish ......... we have condidered emptying the pond but then we lose our ecosystem which has taken 3 years to establish .......... we used to have an enormous algae problem but so far this year none has grown ........ we hope it is the ecosystem but it could be the mozzie fish are eating it

    you would think the useless ducks would eat them wouldnt you :lol: :lol:

    Ev thanks that site is great :D

    jez hubby says the sun down here is stronger than the tropics something to do with you having water vapour in the air that filters the sun and we are much dryer :? eg we tried azolla and it can tolerate the sun here yet we were told it was virtually indestructable - we tried it in the poond then moved it to clean water to try and save it so it wasnt the water quality

    mmmmm the nearest library to us is over 100km away - Lancelin is in many ways a "remote area' :lol: :lol: we are arent far enough from civilisation to get our own services yet we are to far to drive to them :twisted: and actually the local Silver Chain is classed as a remote area office !!!

    frosty
     
  12. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Gday Frosties..Hows Lancelin?

    Before you do your new pond THINK.....Youve mentioned the high sumer temps of Lancelin ....Could you site your pond in a more shadey area?...

    It absolutly incredible how much water is lost to evaporation....

    I would conect it up somehow to tke advantage of Aquaponics like has been suggested.But slightly different,Im thinking of upgrading my set up with the addition of some old Hydroponics piping..then using the plant(veges you grow in the pipes to help filter the water..

    Putting pots on a lip at the side of pond sounds good.But, can you keep your levels up to consistent hight all summer?

    Tezza
     
  13. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    Your husband is correct in relation to the comparitive strength of the sun Frosty, but that applies to the coastal tropics, not the semi-arid tropics where we are.

    Apart from a couple of months over the wet season we have very low humidity...meaning we have totally different native vegetation to the coastal tropics due to the significantly lower rainfall and year round much higher temperatures (though it often feels more comfortable than the coast due to the lack of humidity).

    If you look at Cairns or Darwin on the weather map they rarely get above the low 30C's due to the moist coastal air...we go WAY above their temps (and yours for that matter) because it's so much drier out here.

    I just checked to make certain of what I suspected, and our mean maximum daily temperature is 6-13C higher than yours all year round, while our humidity is virtually half that of Lancelin for 10 months of the year - you are even significantly more humid than us during our wet season. :D

    Anyway, as I said, our watercress is thriving in full sun.

    I don't understand what you meant about the azolla and the water quality...I read it several times but I can't work it out... :lol:

    As for the library, you should be able to arrange postal mate, especially seeing you have limited mobility. Send them an email and I'm sure they'll help out.
     
  14. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Hiya Tezza

    we are fine thanks how are you ? we have been wondering where you got to :wink:

    yes evaporation is something we have considered but we dont have a shady area where we can put the pond ........ we are looking into a floating cover but one thing against that is we need the wind to blow across the pond for oxygen if we want fish

    the hydroponcis setup sounds very interesting although I dont understand exactly what you mean :? you better come up and show us :wink: :lol:

    I agree keeping the water level up is another problem ....... also now considering maybe putting the pots (maybe half blue drums) on the edge of the pond and pumping into them flood and drain, with them draining back into the pond

    then maybe putting the submerged pots in the existing pond which would need altering to put in a shelf ...... that pond will be refilled everyday

    Jez

    certainly sounds like it should grow then :? although I will say that although we are only about 6kim inland from Lancelin it is arround 3C - 5c hotter here ......... and temps are getting noticably hotter each year

    with the azolla we first put it in the big pond and whn it went brown and started to look very sick we pu some into another container with clean water in case the problem was the water quality in the big pond

    the place we bought it from said it would grow in full sun and was very hardy ....... it seemed like the perfact solution to our algae problem - but it all eventually died

    we presumed it was our strong sun ....... the only other thing I just thought of is that our water has a fairly high amount of calcium .......

    the postal idea is great :D thanks

    frosty
     
  15. jeff

    jeff Junior Member

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    Hi Frosty, Most options seem to have been covered.
    What I think would work well is a remote (seperate) planted area as in hydroponics/aquaponics.
    I have thought that instead of a system with pipes and troughs eveywhere, a large single area would be better.
    As you are using a liner for the pond, some left over liner could be used to make a planted filter. Excuse me if I'm repeating someone above.
    The size of the filter depends of course on the size of the dam.
    I would make a planted filter by using sloping ground, say 20 to 1 fall.
    A depth of about 150 mm of 14 mm gravel ( check your gravel for nutrient content !!)
    Ideally, the surface of the gravel wants to be just above the water level.
    Principle being that water from the dam is pumped to the top of gravel bed and flows down past roots of plants, many plant types will grow in this manner.
    The plants take nutrients from water as it passes, the plant roots filter fine particles, the gravel becomes habitat for denitrifying bacteria that will convert ammonia to nitrates------ plant food.
    This is the same principle used in my chemical free pool.
    Again ideally, the plants should survive on the nutrients already in the water, not from adding more nutrients.
    Here is where you draw the line... do you add fertilizer to grow more plants or do you add no fertilizer to purify the water as much as possible?
    Dig your dam deep, less evaporation.
    Water circulation is a major component of cleaning water.
    Good luck!
     
  16. Permibeginner

    Permibeginner Junior Member

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    floating water garden

    How often do you get to Perth? It might be worth going to Kingspark and looking at the Japanese garden on Fraser Rd. They have two floating gardens planted with a variety of plants and they foat around pushed here and there by the wind.

    I assume they are constructed with some sort of waterproof material (PVC piping would be good structurally if you could come up with a good mesh ? some type of fly screening?) the ones at the park look like they are made of wood although it could just be cosmetic) then mix the soil with a high amount of vermiculite to keep it light and you shouldn't have a problem.

    Perhaps you could contact the Kings Park gardeners to see what they did with their floating gardens.

    When living in Perth I created two bog gardens to clean and filter the water in our garden pond. It was driven by two small water pumps that cost around $30 each. The gardens where build above the pond and drained down into it. It was interesting how clean they kept the water despite it being a big surface area(2.2 by 3 meters.) I wanted the small pumps because the slow trickle that was achieved was perfect to allow the slow trickle of water among the roots of hte plants. Too fast and the water doesn't get filtered.

    To slow the flow down even further I added a fountain although at Lancelin you might prefer to just divert some of the water directly back into the pond in stead of into a fountain.

    I had the pond and bog gardens going for over 6 months before we moved. I did notice a high evaporation rate and the loos of water to the surrounding soil due to poor design of the bog garden. (I was loosing water out the side of the drop off into the pond.) It would ahve been fairly simple to fix just taken time and effort which I did not have spare then.
     
  17. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    A good little segment tonight on Garden Australia on water food plants that anyone can grow even in a pot.

    It is probably a repeat, so I don't seem to be able to find a link to it on the web site
    https://www.abc.net.au/gardening/
    Opps here it is!
    https://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s2101784.htm

    Does anyone have any other suggestions of useful aquatic plants?
    I thought the choice was a little limited.
     
  18. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    I was gonna suggest Kankong for Frosty, but it can get very invasive in dams...no problem in a pond where it's ok for it to dominate. It goes well in regularly damp soil too where it's less invasive than it is in water.

    Good nutritious plant which is easy to grow.
     
  19. TropicalRose

    TropicalRose Junior Member

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    Just a thought, what about floating plant containers tethered to the bottom with chain and anchor type thing. Some sort of raft affair with drums for buoyancy, where it has a recessed area for the plants to be in the water and it will go up and down with the levels. You should be able to make them from recycled materials. When you are ready to harvest, just pull on the chain and float it into you.
     
  20. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    thanks PB I dont get right to Perth very often but if i do will take a look 8)

    thanks also m and jez kankong has definate possibilities - dont think anything could become to invasive here :?

    and thanks TR another interesting idea to consider :D

    the pond is full and took nearly 100, 000 litres ......... we expected to be short of sand to build the banks but surprisingly had some over .......
    now we have to level the banks a bit better then dig and shelf arround it ......... thought it easier to leave 1m of liner outside then dig the shelf into the bank by hand

    frosty
     

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