Christopher mentioned a pivotal moment in his life when living in New York seemed (i can't find the word) ... bleak. At what point did people realize that our civilization was going down the tubes? For me it began during a holiday with my family to Kangaroo Island when I was 14. It was idyllic. When I was 16 I shared the idea with my sister (who was 31 and living in Katharine) She got hooked and got a hold of "Self-Sufficiency" by John and Sally Seymour. I loved that book. The realization that our civilization was really ugly hit me on my 17th birthday - coming down off mushrooms. Just looking at the skyline with telegraph poles and electric wires, concrete everywhere ... I thought we're doomed... I've lived in Manila for 19 years - a city that embodies everything that's wrong with this civilization but next year Tassie. Hopefully to stay in one place long enough to harvest what I plant.