pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

Discussion in 'General chat' started by qis, Dec 4, 2008.

  1. qis

    qis Junior Member

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    Hello! I am new to this forum. Thank you for all the wonderful advice and discussion that is here. I am learning lots.
    Would you have an idea what to do with large numbers of pine trees on a property that we will convert to permaculture? There are thousands and thousands and thousands of them, around every paddock, creek, and dam - even around the house. I keep repeating that the problem must be the solution, but I haven't got much further than firewood to power the house (which isn't very atmosphere friendly) and cut into small logs to put around garden beds. It's a tricky problem, because you can't grow much with a pine tree nearby. And also there's not much you can do with pine wood unless it's been treated, and this is polluting. What do you suggest?
     
  2. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    Hello qis,

    Welcome to the forum.

    What sort of pine trees do you want to get rid of, and where are you located? Also, are you allowed to fell or clear the trees?

    I know goats will help you with any regrowth and a lot of pines have some commercial value.

    Cheers,

    Ho-hum
     
  3. qis

    qis Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    Thanks Ho-hum for helping, glad to be here. They are Pinus Radiata, 20 - 25 years old. They can be felled. The goats sound like a great idea.
     
  4. ppp

    ppp Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    Hi

    I don't know how much time and effort you want to put into it.. but many people would consider these trees as a huge resource. (me included)

    A number of small transportable saw mills are available which can produce useable timber for building, weatherboards etc. I have personally spent quite a few days cutting up red gum which would have otherwise have been burnt.
    So far we have used the timber for a coffee table, large shelving unit a fence and some other furniture has also been made out of the timber.

    I agree with you that radiata pine won't last long outside as unpainted fences etc, since it is fairly soft. Hoever there are ways around this, or you could look for advice on protecting the timber??

    Of course you could make a good quality biochar plant, and produce both gas for cooking etc and biochar to improve the soil, I think you could use all of the offcuts for that though, rather than the good quality timber.

    And finally, perhaps there are people local to you who would like to exchange or buy some timber. Obviously the more local they are the better, perhaps you want to tell us the vague area you are in?

    sounds like fun!
     
  5. qis

    qis Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    Hi PPP, I really like those ideas. I've never heard of biochar. It's great being here where all the thinking is outside the box.
    The area of the property is half an hour west of Geelong. Barter and exchange sound like a great way to go, because we are starting from scratch, and have no money, and the land is 70 acres. We will need to plant food gardens, native trees, and keep low impact livestock, as well as have something to eat and clothe ourselves with whilst we get the permaculture system underway which I understand can take some time. The house on the property is also needing renovations, and we intend to do this with paper crete, sandbags, and recycled materials like bottles and hardwood. I'd be happy to swap trailers of firewood, or whole trunks, in return for what we need. The less money to the tax system, and more resources to the permaculture community, the better!
    I'd be keen to hear ideas on how to protect the timber in an environmentally and people friendly way. I know nothing about soft woods, and have had a hard time finding info on how to preserve it safely on the internet. I am not very fit, and I have a young child, so I'd be keen to go into partnership or start a co-op to do the felling and processing. What's a good biochar plant design? What transportable mill do you recommend?
     
  6. Mowman

    Mowman Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    Try talking barter with sawmills. A friend of mine had 5-10 acres of huge old pine trees on his 45 acres. He let a local woodcutter (who also owns a quarry) have them in exchange for 5 days onsite use of his major earthmoving machines and their drivers and some boulders. The change was amazing, and the quarry guy still does him favours.
     
  7. qis

    qis Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    awesome!
     
  8. ppp

    ppp Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    the saw mill we borrowed was a lewis mill, I haven't found a link for one yet..

    here are two others that are available.
    https://www.petersonsawmills.com/products_index.htm

    https://www.lucasmill.com/

    I've heard good things about the lucas, obviously they aren't cheap, but i had a large source of trees I would be doing all I could to get one.
    Perhaps the idea of selling some of them to an actual commercial saw mill for cash might help you the most with getting your project off the ground.. I don't know.
     
  9. qis

    qis Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    thanks ppp :)
     
  10. elmejor

    elmejor Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    Pinus radiata timber have greater strength but less stiffness, so the clear trunks produce timber highly suited for furniture and all forms of show wood applications. why dont you talk to some timber guys around and trade it off... you can get a good price for it
     
  11. david n

    david n Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    Pine leaf mold is perfect for blueberry mulch, I don't know if blueberries are suited to your climate. From distant memory a Blueberry cousin, Bilberry (Vacicinium myrtillus) has a symbioitic relationship with the same fugus Pines use for nitrogen-fixing so can grow alongside/under pines, I've seen it sold as a medicinal herb, is edible but I don't think it is very productive.

    I've eaten the nuts of Pinus radiata, supposedly all Pinus nuts are edible, even served them at party, everyone survived. They are small but I thought tasty. If you are adventurous just put a cone in the oven, the heat will open and the nuts (more like seeds in size) will fall out cooked. I think from memory I put several layers of tin foil on the base to prevent them from burning, removing the "wings"is rather tedious, there may be a quick way. Perhaps they could be ground into bread or something.

    Here in New Zealand rotting Pine is one of the 2 most favorite foods of the Huhu Grub, a bettle larvae the Maori once depended on for food, it is still eaten by wild food enthusiasts, perhaps you have something similar in Australia. I've never tried any Beetle larvae, I've never heard anyone rave.

    I don't know much about Mushrooms but the Shade would suit them, just flipped open a book on NZ Edibles, the Pine Bolete (Suillus luteus) an edible mushroom sold commercially in Europe, is "common under pine trees".

    Perhaps some nocturnal edible critters might like the shady pine niche.
     
  12. derekh

    derekh Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    Go to https://www.woodworkforums.com/ and check the Small Timber Milling sub-forum to ask for portable millers near your area.
     
  13. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    This time every year, my dad and I would climb a tall pine, Cut 6-8 feet off the top, and drag it home for our Christmas tree. It was a great adventure for me.

    Remember the only meaning of my existence is as a warning to others.
    (adapted from despair.com)
     
  14. david n

    david n Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    Come to think of it I use Pinus radiata every day for a sense of awe, nothing quite like looking up into the mature pines I walk my dog to. Corporations, religions, kings and art museums all know the simplest way to create awe is with great scale, my theory is it works because we subconciously think we are toddlers again looking up at mommy (and maybe daddy).

    There are a few other uses you may not be aware of in the "Plants for a Future" website.
     
  15. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    There is a story I vaguely remember about a Master Teacher in The Way of Plants who had a star pupil that'd studied with him for many years.
    The day of the student's final exam came.
    The teacher, to the surprise and shock of the student, asked only one question:-
    "Find me a plant that is not useful to man"

    Elated, and sure he had his graduation "in the bag", the student set off.
    He searched high and low and gradually, started to worry.
    He went though forest and field but the elusive, 'useless' plant he could not find.
    For months he tried, increasingly worried, tired and frantic.
    After many months the tired, ripped, dishevelled, staving and battered student came and prostrated himself in front of the Master:-
    "I am sorry master. I have failed. I cannot find the plant useless to man"

    "Arise my son" said the wise master, "for you have passed the test"
    [​IMG]

    All stories change but the truth remains.

    Plants for a future database home page is at
    https://www.pfaf.org/index.php

    More info on DIY pyrolysis at
    https://hypography.com/forums/terra-preta/

    [​IMG]
     
  16. elmejor

    elmejor Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    Very true Michaelangelica, but Qis has mentioned a problem that he wants to shift to permaculture and doesnt know what to do with the pine trees he has in his property. and if he has the permission to cut them and trade off, then there is nothing wrong in that. i agree with your sentiments that trees are useful & should not be cut, but i guess he needs to cut them for the survival of his and his family
     
  17. qis

    qis Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    yes, and they are strangling the creeks and killing the orchards.
     
  18. elmejor

    elmejor Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    well thats also true.... :axe:
     
  19. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    Agreed

    Which pine produces the hellishly expensive "Pine Nuts"

    I find basil pesto is just not the same without them.
     
  20. qis

    qis Junior Member

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    Re: pine trees and what to do with large numbers of them?

    stone pines. (correct me if i'm wrong). a few mail order tree places like yulca sells them.
     

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