Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by duanejen, Jun 18, 2009.

  1. duanejen

    duanejen Junior Member

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    Many permaculture practioners may be interested to see Peter Andrews again on the ABC's tv 'Australian Story'.

    The double episode is due to go to air on the 6th and 13th July 2009.

    Many of you will have seen the original programmes 'Of droughts and flooding rains' that were shown back in June 2005.

    This double episode hopes to show what advances have been made in the last four years.

    Compulsive viewing for everyone.

    Please alert ALL of your networks to catch this next installment. :finga:
     
  2. Phil Hansen

    Phil Hansen Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    Dear Permies,
    Yes we all like Peter Andrews' work! I think, however, his greatest claim might be that he has taken the thinking that goes into flood plain reclaimation and erosion mitigation somewhat away from what us PC designers have been advocating for the past 35 years and claiming as uniquely his.

    Whilst Peter has vehemently denounced permaculture as having any relevence to his methologies, it remains undeniable that such remedial works that he practices are little more than the same biomimicry that PC aims to achieve in so much of its' design philosophy.

    Without feeling the need to site specific examples of similar projects that have achieved equally significant outcomes through traditional permaculture design tools as seen clearly in PC1, PC2 and the Designers' Manual, it remains patently clear that there is a certain level of marketing spin involved in Peter Andrews' public profile that perhaps rides on the back of the experiences of hundreds of less savvy pragmatists. There are thousands of dynamic landowners and custodians who have as deep an understanding, if not deeper, as some media personalities, of sustainable land-use practices that have been quietly, passionately, privatley, and instinctualy doing the work that needs to be done to this land for decades that have not recieved the accolades that Peter Andrews has recieved as though he has invented the ideas himself. You know who you are!! I must also question the use of prime, arable, flood plain irrigated land for the use of breeding thoroughbred horses. :? Feed communities or feed gambling???????????

    Anyhow, enjoy the viewing.

    Phil
     
  3. Cyna5

    Cyna5 New Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    Having read his book, and seen the previous show, my opinion is that he has little relevance to many people due to the fact that most people do not have a permanent stream running through their property. I'm sure the world would be a much better place if we did. I also take issue with his use of planting 'weeds' on his stream. Since a weed is 'a plant where we don't want it', if I was living downstream from him, I may not want his 'plants' infesting my land. Unfortunately for him, his obsession with the property led to his marriage failure and going bankrupt (his son bought the property from the bank). He has an interesting theory about how creeks used to flow above the level of the surrounding land in the past.
     
  4. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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  5. duanejen

    duanejen Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    An open mind lets in new ways of viewing the world.

    See https://www.mcnf.com.au/html/index.htm where Geoff Lawton is running permaculture courses and incorporating aspects of Peter Andrews' NSF.
     
  6. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    co-incidently Peters natural sequence farming is fully described in Bill Mollisons "Permaculture, a Designers Manual" called alley cropping.

    I spoke to Peter once. He was concerned that swales may induce salinity. Not if you have full vegetation up slope i think.

    His book is recommended reading. Taught me stuff that was alraedy in Bills Manual that I never appreciated. Peter is one of Australias great Permaculturalists, and he gets noticed.

    Leo. PS See divots in my photo gallery that I think are a low cost method of eliminating a lot of salinity problems in rangelands https://www.janahn.com.au
     
  7. Luisa

    Luisa Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    Well I bought the first of Peter Andrews book since it was advertised as having information in it of which scientists are unaware and being a scientist myself with some years of work in wetlands and watercourses I was curious to know what he had to say that scientists were allegedly "coming to sit at his feet" to hear. I guess they must mean agricultural scientists because all the wetland scientists (ie wetland ecologists) in Australia have known this stuff for years. They didn't get coverage in the MSM but it's all there in the literature and textbooks.

    And yes I agree, his enthusiasm for weeds could certainly make him unpopular with downstream landowners who've put serious $$ into removing weeds only to have them wash down later.

    I am happy if he is getting the message out to landowners who might not know (or want to know) from wetland ecologists but there's not much in it that is new.
     
  8. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    What sort of weeds is he using? If a weed is simply an unwanted plant, then any plant you want but your neighbour doesn't would have to be considered a weed.

    How come Andrews doesn't like permaculture?
     
  9. Phil Hansen

    Phil Hansen Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    Yes, there is little new in this thinking (and application). Good to hear from a science perspective as well. If wetland ecologists and permaculturists have been advocating and practicing these techniques for decades, is it just his personal story that has grabbed the headlines? I E-mailed Andrews a few years back to seek details about his work and recieved a response from hid marketing manager tto the effect that 'you're not to try this at home', that's badly paraphrased, but I can'r recall the exact patronising words he used.

    If a downstream neighbour spends $$$$ on removing weeds - well maybe they just need to slow down and get a bit educated about the cology that they farm in.

    Cheers
    Phil
     
  10. Luisa

    Luisa Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    Well I'm thinking of Parthenium, a nasty weed which degrades pasture and has allergic effects on a proportion of people. I know of a situation locally where a group of landholders have spent $$ ridding their land of it while an upstream property is still heavily infested with it. No amount of peer group pressure through Landcare, the local pub, etc has changed the owners mind. It keeps reinfesting d/s properties. So that's the sort of scenario I was thinking of.

    I think P Andrews has been able to get some media and more power to him if he can get the message out. But there's nothing new in it. (He seems to have come to the knowledge through a non-science process so I don't claim he is plagiarising, just that it is not new.)
     
  11. janahn

    janahn Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    Hey Luisa,

    Whilst Parthenium may be a nasty weed IT does not degrade pasture lands. Cattle do, or to be more accurate, graziers who flogg their country with cattle do. Parthenium disappears when you spell the land. deep rooted woody weeds are true pioneers that restore country. graze it well and you may increase yields Viz cell grazing especially. If farmers are getting parthenium they should first look at their own land use methods.

    Once you have inedible and piosionous species invading I think it is fair to say "the earth is telling you something"
     
  12. Luisa

    Luisa Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    Janahn,
    The problem is the guys d/s are trying to do that but it keeps seeding in from u/s. It then spreads via cattle dung when their cattle eat it. The guy u/s makes no attempt to manage his property better so there is a permanent source of it.

    In any event I was using it as an example only. I understand the concept of weeds as indicators of how land is being managed but that's not what the criticism of Peter Andrews use of weeds is anyway. Yes grazers will graze a wide array of plants, even poisonous ones in small quantities and undoubtedly some will be bioaccumulating trace nutrients that are not available any other way. But in a neighbourhood catchment it's bad manners to allow weeds that others are trying to remove (via several methods) to find refuge on your own property.

    As I said I think Peter Andrews has got the right concepts otherwise, but it's not new and really the promotional material needs to be more carefully edited. Otherwise someone is likely to hit him up with litigation!
     
  13. duanejen

    duanejen Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    Peter Andrews was an invited guest by the Permaculture organisers to the APC 9 Convergence conference in Turramurra.

    He appeared there as a guest speaker and was on the panel with Bill M and Geoff L, amongst others, taking questions from the audience.

    Prof Haikai Tane was a guest speaker there also and he acknowledged the work Peter had done and was doing.

    The opportunity was there for people on the day to question Peter and his ideas.

    None were audible.
     
  14. duanejen

    duanejen Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    Click on https://www.abc.net.au/austory/ to see a preview of Mondays Australian Story episode. The entire program will be online the day after the screening.

    I appreciate the moderators allowing this information to go onto this forum. Thank you.
     
  15. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    [​IMG]
    https://www.abc.net.au/austory/

    Interesting story.
    it seems blindingly obvious that the guy is right.
    What is everyone's problem including his?
    if he thinks he has had no impact he might like to Google himself
    EG
    1 - 10 of about 391,000 for peter andrews farming system
    or
    Results 1 - 10 of about 190,000 for Natural sequence farming.

    Why should he worry? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
    Let the dolts who don't believe him have their farms wash out to sea.

    More next week it seems.

    His books are available at:- [​IMG]
    https://www.naturalsequencefarming.com/

    A website on his ideas:-
    [​IMG]
    https://www.nsfarming.com/Principles/principles1.html
     
  16. Wyche

    Wyche Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    Wow, what a story. Good to see the Government get off our backs. It was a shame his daughter died before he was recognized.
     
  17. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    I can't get that to load. Is it avalable only in Australia?
     
  18. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    no i don't think so Pebble you should be able to get it.
    it was only on last night so it may not be downloadable yet
    Try tomorrow, and tell me if you can't get it, and i will take it up with the ABC
     
  19. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    Ok thanks :)

    It's got some repeat TV screenings this week so maybe the internet version doesn't go up until after that?
     
  20. duanejen

    duanejen Junior Member

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    Re: Peter Andrews to appear on ABC's 'Australian Story'. AGAIN

    Thanks Everyone for those comments...both +ve and - ve.

    This Monday nights program will show a segment From Mulloon Creek Natural Farms where Peter's work on the creek/floodplains is being done in conjunction with Geoff Lawton's work with Permaculture. They are running PDC courses there.

    The owner of MCNF speaks about this work on Mondays show.

    Hope that you are able to catch the program.
     

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